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Thread: 6 months gone and still no fix for Version 12.

  1. #31
    Senior Member Beach Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trimdoner View Post
    and Dreamweaver. The latter is a difficult move for me (expensive plus a vertical learning curve might be a better description)
    Ken
    The ROI on Dreamweaver, time and money wise is simply not worth it. Stay away from that contraption. The only reason to learn it is because you eventually you want to work for an employer.
    Employers know little about creative tools and are caught up in the Adobe branding. Builders and contractors at construction sites have no problem with workers who show up with their own tools because they're more interested in a quality and result, rather than the tools they use, simply not the way in the creative/technical world.
    Then once you've gained enough experience and a portfolio to match, you're ready to set your own terms. So, you might as well start off there now. I love taking customers away from the agencies and the big co's.
    Last edited by Beach Ape; 06-22-2011 at 03:17 PM.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Trimdoner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach Ape View Post
    The ROI on Dreamweaver, time and money wise is simply not worth it. Stay away from that contraption. The only reason to learn it is because you eventually you want to work for an employer.
    I started with Dreamweaver a few years back, but had a preference for NOF simply because it was easier to use for the type of sites I built.
    I've been self employed for 40+ years so there's not much chance of me every being suitable again to play by some else's tune....
    I just like to have up to date software at hand. My website 'arsenal' consists of NOF11, DW, WYSIWYG7, Webplus X4 and Microsoft Expression2. I like to play around with various flavours of website software just to see what it's capable of, and fortunately have the spare time now. I'm quite happy at the moment keeping my 'work' projects in NOF.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Beach Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trimdoner View Post
    I just like to have up to date software at hand. My website 'arsenal' consists of NOF11, DW, WYSIWYG7, Webplus X4 and Microsoft Expression2. I like to play around with various flavours of website software just to see what it's capable of, and fortunately have the spare time now. I'm quite happy at the moment keeping my 'work' projects in NOF.
    Too much overlap for me and I can't say I play with software other than to see if there's a ROI. I used NOF since v3 but now I find it isn't keeping up with the things I want to do. After it was mentioned I tried the WWB7, and wanting to be able to do things, I found it delivers on a lot of items that have been on my wish list for a long time, with amazing simplicity. I would have easily stayed with NOF but the slumber is too long. Life goes on, customers are waiting and I have to compete - or rather, people have to compete with me. Can't do that waiting for a cab.
    Although the migration has started, I keep having a look back though. If something amazing happens here before too long, who knows.
    Last edited by Beach Ape; 06-22-2011 at 05:42 PM.

  4. #34
    Twayne
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    Default Re: 6 months gone and still no fix for Version 12.

    In news:itpfm6$bi1$1@DailyPlanet.news.netobjects.com,
    Adrian <adrian@inspired-glass.com> typed:
    > HI Franko
    >
    > On 21/06/2011 01:09, franko wrote:
    >> Adrian, I'm not saying "that other html generator" isn't
    >> any good. I'm saying that all of them are much of a
    >> muchness, and all of them have different ways of working
    >> and once you get used to one of them it's a pain to
    >> learn another way, especially under pressure.

    >
    >
    > Absolutely
    > When you're up against a deadline, that's the last moment
    > you want to be doing the RTFM bit!
    > I guess I was kind of lucky - in that I had a paying
    > client who insisted I use 'the website authoring package
    > that shall not be named' - so I had every incentive to throw myself in @
    > the deep
    > end!
    >> Most of my sites
    >> are fairly simple brochureware sites also and for that
    >> NoF is entirely adequate.

    >
    > I've found V12 to be flaky & unstable on my 'simple
    > sites' - it was particularly prone to falling over its
    > feet when faced with long tables (where you want to lay
    > out lists of names / addresses / phone numbers in a tidy
    > fashion - and 'yes' _ I do know about database-driven
    > content <g>)
    >> As is "that other one", webPlus, coffee cup and all the
    >> others. Incidentally, one of the reasons you don't see
    >> me complaining a lot here is because I simply don't have
    >> any issues with NoF. I don't see the graphics
    >> transparency issue as a major problem because I use a
    >> graphics editing program to do all my graphics. And I
    >> must say I've never seen any reason to use PNGs instead
    >> of Gifs - Gifs have worked just fine for me for the last
    >> nearly 20 years so why would I not continue to use them?

    >
    > Understood.
    > Gifs & JPGs here 99.99% of the time. ISTR that NOF12 has
    > trouble with displaying its own-generated banners due to
    > the PNG transparency issue - but I might be wrong.
    > It's annoying that NOF12 won't obey default settings and
    > refrain from re-optimising images that have been
    > generated/processed/optimised in another program. These
    > are probably tiny things to fix, but (for me) major
    > irritations - as is the company's apparent indifference
    > to this situation. Maybe folks are right, and nobody
    > works for NO anymore - and everything is subcontracted out to some place
    > where
    > the wages are cheap? Who knows ?
    >
    >>
    >> When I have time I'll work through a dummy site or 2
    >> with "that other program" and see if it becomes as
    >> intuitive for me as NoF is, in which case I may use it
    >> to create graphic front ends.

    >
    > Try it - you'll like it!<g>
    >
    >> But until somebody
    >> (anybody) comes up with a truly integrated, "all in one"
    >> program that lets me design and create interactive
    >> custom sites I'll continue to use the suite of
    >> applications that I currently use (and have for the last
    >> 15 or so years).

    > Definitely. There was no _technical_ need for NOF12 to
    > attempt to be all things to all men - and, in doing so
    > (presumably to please the Marketing people) they've
    > broken what they had... - again, all in my humble
    > opinion.
    > Still - we mustn't go on like this - we'll be accused of
    > insurrection!
    > Adrian


    No, not really IMO. Ths is pretty much SOP for NOF; gets a stable, mostly
    reliable version out, then the next "version" has to be used to fix the
    problems.
    I don't know if it's going to change or not, but they had/have this silly
    rule where you can't buy two $109 upgrades in a row. If you used up your
    upgrade, you have to go for the full version at $200, then you could get a
    $109 "upgrade" to it when the time comes. For now I'm bypassing 12 since
    it's a frogged up version and wating to see what comes next, if anything.
    It's best IMO to watch the results of the new releases before investing in
    them, assuming there ever is another rev. You tell whether it's an upgrade
    or full program based on the product number.

    HTH,

    Twayne`



  5. #35
    Twayne
    Guest

    Default Re: 6 months gone and still no fix for Version 12.

    In news:franko.4vnol4@no-mx.forums.netobjects.com,
    franko <franko.4vnol4@no-mx.forums.netobjects.com> typed:
    > Adrian, I'm not saying "that other html generator" isn't


    ....

    And I must say I've never seen any reason to
    > use PNGs instead of Gifs - Gifs have worked just fine for
    > me for the last nearly 20 years so why would I not
    > continue to use them?


    NOF isn't .png (ping) "friendly" so to speak, but it can have some great
    advantages in keeping images possible on web pages and still not lengthen
    loading time. For images with a low number of colors, it can create very
    small files without losing and quality. I've seen 20k to 40k .gif images
    reduced to as little as 2k to 3k size. It's a natural for things like
    banners, buttons, etc., and to add pleasing images to web sites that
    wouldn't otherwise be acceptable to load times.
    In my case on two local sites it's pretty important that they be 56k
    modem friendly because it's very rural geographcally and DSL or even cable
    isn't available in many areas. Thus, our stats show about an average of 18%
    56k modem users for any particular given month. To keep sites loading
    quickly for those folks it's obviously necessary to keep image sizes down
    and code compressed, both of which I use on the sites. And of course, it
    helps for larger files too but it still depends on the number of colors used
    and transparency usage whether it beats .gif.
    The problem though, is that NOF doesn't handle .png mages well and can't
    display them. So what you end up with is a "broken image" icon inside NOF.
    OTOH though, they publish just fine.
    OTOH again though, for high numbers of colors, your .png can actually
    result in an even larger filesize than .gif's so it takes a little
    experience to learn when to try one or the other. I use PaintShop Pro for my
    image work because it has 3 "optimizers" that will let you check the file
    size outcomes of jpg, gif and png images. It doesn't take long before you
    can tell just by looking which format will work out the best.

    As for having used GIF's for more than 20 years, that's all well and good
    but I suggest that things change with time and are often worth checking
    into; that's a limitation you should not place on yourself. You don't
    mention much about .JPGs, which I don't use either due to their lossy
    compression and having to go back and use the original image everytime you
    might want to make a change to the image. Saving to a .jpg once is OK for
    sometimes up to about 40% compression but resaving it again, even at say no
    or low compression settings, still results in more losses. So GIF and PNG
    are all I use for site work.
    IMO the only reason to not use PNG format with NOF is if not seeing the
    images properly in Assets and Styles bothers you too much. I've found the
    format can give me a LOT of relief when I reach a point where load times are
    in trouble but the client wants those pictures.

    >
    > When I have time I'll work through a dummy site or 2 with
    > "that other program" and see if it becomes as intuitive
    > for me as NoF is, in which case I may use it to create
    > graphic front ends. But until somebody (anybody) comes up
    > with a truly integrated, "all in one" program that lets
    > me design and create interactive custom sites I'll
    > continue to use the suite of applications that I
    > currently use (and have for the last 15 or so years).


    There's that "15 or so years" thing again. Seriously, unless you are
    learning disabled now or something, I think you're limiting yourself as to
    what's available and very useful out there. 15 years s a very long time in
    applications age IMO and one needs to keep an eye open for areas that can
    better serve in some areas.
    As for an "all in one" app to have all these features and more, turnkey
    in other words, I'm not so sure you'll ever see that. It would be just too
    much code for one application to manage well and keep maintained unless the
    maker was a Microsoft or a Google. You might want to have a look at kompozer
    and things like that too; even NVU is pretty handy when you want to assemble
    a snippet to CTRL-T into a NOF-bred site.

    Just my 2 cents, that's all.

    Twayne`






  6. #36
    Senior Member Beach Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franko View Post
    And I must say I've never seen any reason to use PNGs instead of Gifs - Gifs have worked just fine for me for the last nearly 20 years so why would I not continue to use them?
    Reason: PNG's transparency goes beyond GIF transparency. Gif can only assign 1 color in the pallete to be transparent whereas PNG's use opacity.
    You could never do this with GIF: http://www.deanconstructioncompany.com/stage/
    1. Company logo top right, outer glow over bar graphic AND image.
    2. Bar behind text for slight contrast against images.
    3. The Icons shadow against a gradient fill.
    4. Whatever else anyone can imagine.

  7. #37
    Junior Member joanell's Avatar
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    What a blessing for you Through it all you now can write your own HTML.... Anyway all I can say about version XII is brilliant its quicker and never crashes I love it!! It is the best software of its kind on the market. I have tried them all. I just recently change my PC to a MAC and tried all the WYSIWYG software available for the OS X and finally installed Window 7 on the MAC and upgraded my NetObjects to the new version XII Yes I have a few problems at times however I have found the support at NetObject to be very helpfull.

  8. #38
    Adrian
    Guest

    Default Re: 6 months gone and still no fix for Version 12.

    On 28/07/2011 01:55, joanell wrote:
    > What a blessing for you Through it all you now can write your own
    > HTML....


    Very amusing.
    I was writing 'my own html' in 1993 - but that's not what I said....

    I've been chastised before for 'advertising' an alternative product -
    so I won't mention it again by name - but I can confirm that it's more
    stable than NOF12, I find it much more user-friendly, it's easier and
    faster to create a presentable website than using NOF12....

    ....and - the big one - support is provided by man who actually wrote the
    software - and answers are typically provided within an hour or so.

    Updates are frequent and stable, the company doesn't email you to tell
    you how great they are (!), and the product is a quarter the price of
    NOF12...

    Anyway all I can say about version XII is brilliant its quicker
    > and never crashes I love it!! It is the best software of its kind on the
    > market. I have tried them all. I just recently change my PC to a MAC and
    > tried all the WYSIWYG software available for the OS X and finally
    > installed Window 7 on the MAC and upgraded my NetObjects to the new
    > version XII Yes I have a few problems at times however I have found the
    > support at NetObject to be very helpfull.
    >
    >


    You are replying to a message that was posted 7 weeks ago, you've
    misread the message completely, and you're praising NOF12.

    Hang on - I remember that pattern - you must be Netobjects Support! <g>

    And before anybody asks why I'm 'still around'....
    - because I still have some clients' sites in NOF (not yet migrated to
    the website design tool that cannot be mentioned...) so it's useful to
    pick up hints and tips from other users
    - because I'm wondering just how long it might be before NO _finally_
    get around to fixing the bugs that they introduced in NOF12 - back in
    January.....

    Adrian

  9. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joanell View Post
    What a blessing for you Through it all you now can write your own HTML.... Anyway all I can say about version XII is brilliant its quicker and never crashes I love it!! It is the best software of its kind on the market. I have tried them all. I just recently change my PC to a MAC and tried all the WYSIWYG software available for the OS X and finally installed Window 7 on the MAC and upgraded my NetObjects to the new version XII Yes I have a few problems at times however I have found the support at NetObject to be very helpfull.
    This reads like a marketing flyer put out by NetObjects.

    A full 7 months after buying NOF 12, the problems it introduced have not been fixed.
    I haven't been near it after all of the frustration I encountered with the broken graphics.

    Rich
    NOF 2013: (AU1)......Windows 7 Ultimate Version 6.1 (Build 7601:SP1)
    Mac OSX 10.8.3.....Parallels Desktop 8 (8.0.18483)
    iMac 27" 2.7 GHz Intel Core 2 i5.....12Gb 1333 Mhz DDR3

  10. #40
    Joe Rotello
    Guest

    Default Re: 6 months gone and still no fix for Version 12.

    Adrian...

    Would that "other" web page/website software that can not be mentioned
    be related to WYSIWYG 7 ??

    Just wondering.

    Joe

    On 7/28/2011 3:37 AM, Adrian wrote:
    > On 28/07/2011 01:55, joanell wrote:
    >> What a blessing for you Through it all you now can write your own
    >> HTML....

    >
    > Very amusing.
    > I was writing 'my own html' in 1993 - but that's not what I said....
    >
    > I've been chastised before for 'advertising' an alternative product -
    > so I won't mention it again by name - but I can confirm that it's more
    > stable than NOF12, I find it much more user-friendly, it's easier and
    > faster to create a presentable website than using NOF12....
    >
    > ...and - the big one - support is provided by man who actually wrote the
    > software - and answers are typically provided within an hour or so.
    >
    > Updates are frequent and stable, the company doesn't email you to tell
    > you how great they are (!), and the product is a quarter the price of
    > NOF12...
    >
    > Anyway all I can say about version XII is brilliant its quicker
    >> and never crashes I love it!! It is the best software of its kind on the
    >> market. I have tried them all. I just recently change my PC to a MAC and
    >> tried all the WYSIWYG software available for the OS X and finally
    >> installed Window 7 on the MAC and upgraded my NetObjects to the new
    >> version XII Yes I have a few problems at times however I have found the
    >> support at NetObject to be very helpfull.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > You are replying to a message that was posted 7 weeks ago, you've
    > misread the message completely, and you're praising NOF12.
    >
    > Hang on - I remember that pattern - you must be Netobjects Support! <g>
    >
    > And before anybody asks why I'm 'still around'....
    > - because I still have some clients' sites in NOF (not yet migrated to
    > the website design tool that cannot be mentioned...) so it's useful to
    > pick up hints and tips from other users
    > - because I'm wondering just how long it might be before NO _finally_
    > get around to fixing the bugs that they introduced in NOF12 - back in
    > January.....
    >
    > Adrian



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