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Thread: Goodbye NOF

  1. #21
    Senior Member Adendum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trimdoner View Post
    "So in my case, it's "The Devil You Know." "
    My case exactly

    I jumped on the WYS** bandwagon, and must admit I'm very impressed with what it can do. (I'm also on the Dreamweaver wagon, but it really is MUCH to much hard work for my simple sites and lies abandoned...)
    But little things which I find easy in NOF mean extra jumps in the other. And I was turned off a bit early on when I realised editing a nice web-tuned graphic in WYS** turned it into a monstrous png file, so that was the first built-in function layed to one side......

    I still have no confidence at all in upgrading to NOF12 though - I'm keeping all current sites in 11.
    1. Persevere with WYS****, it will repay your investment of time with dividends, big dividends!! If the speed, stability, regular updates and excellent support aren't enough for you then there are over 300 plug-ins or extensions that simplify many coding exercises that take huge effort in NOF. And the WYS**** people even provide an extension building tool - that I have taken advantage of myself - see examples here.

    2. Why would you want to edit an image in any software other than a graphic editing programme - e.g Photoshop or similar?

    3. I also am sticking with NOF 11 and will not "upgrade". I have numerous sites built in various versions of NOF over the years and had it not been for this forum and many of its members I would have given up on NO years ago. NOF support was (and sadly IS) a joke and after having experienced WYS**** support, which is frankly first class, fast and comes from the actual author I can't imagine how NO have survived this long. What they offer as 'support' is beyond a joke, beyond laughable, it is profoundly sad....and, if I may be so bold, I would add that it is highly disrespectful to its paying customers.

    4. And yes, I have gone from NOF's number one fan to something quite different. Also sad huh?
    Paul - Aditerum Ltd and AllSortsOfStuff Ltd
    NOF11 (in Admin mode!); Vista Premium 64bit; AMD Phenom IIx4 945 Processor 3.00Ghz; 8.0Gb RAM
    Wouldn't it be great if there was only a single browser to worry about!!!

  2. #22
    Senior Member Trimdoner's Avatar
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    Why would you want to edit an image in any software other than a graphic editing programme - e.g Photoshop or similar?
    I don't - I was just trying out some of the handy 'drop shadow etc.' effects on existing banners etc. File sizes changes changed from 30-40k to 300+ !
    Other than that I'm in full agreement with you regarding the other functions and extensions available with WYS*** - there's a remarkable selection which should have been available in NOF years ago.
    Your directory listing extension looks useful.... I maintain a couple of file archives for other people which could benefit from an easier listing method. ( At present I just upload a zip file when needed, and manually add it to a dowload list)

    I still keep dropping back to WYS*** to play about with it though, but unfortunately my current domestic duties don't allow me much spare time

    Luckily I don't have any new projects waiting in the wings.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Adendum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trimdoner View Post
    ... I maintain a couple of file archives for other people which could benefit from an easier listing method. ( At present I just upload a zip file when needed, and manually add it to a dowload list)....
    I first used the script in a NOF built site - took a while but I got it working. Now it takes 5 minutes to set up in WYS****. If you want to use it in a NOF site drop me a line and I'll send you the script with a sample NOF page and/or instructions.
    Paul - Aditerum Ltd and AllSortsOfStuff Ltd
    NOF11 (in Admin mode!); Vista Premium 64bit; AMD Phenom IIx4 945 Processor 3.00Ghz; 8.0Gb RAM
    Wouldn't it be great if there was only a single browser to worry about!!!

  4. #24

    Angry wouldn't mind saying goodbye, but after more than 10 years am afraid to try!

    I've used NO for so long I'm not sure I can switch! The bugginess bugs me, but I like other things, like the flow chart type display and the way I can create a template and then have certain things just come up easily on each page. But I have thought about trying something else. I guess I've figured other programs have bugs too, and sometimes it's better to deal with the devil you know.....

    And now I find myself on the forum because after installing the latest update, all my buttons now are displaying text weirdly. they were fine before. I use a graphic I made for the button and then just put the text overlay on it and link the pic to the page I want. Now the text seems to be shrunk on most of my buttons to tiny. On the editor page, looks like I want it, swich to preview or look at it online and now it is teeny. WTH? Why must they do this to me?

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adendum View Post
    1. Persevere with WYS****, it will repay your investment of time with dividends, big dividends!! If the speed, stability, regular updates and excellent support aren't enough for you then there are over 300 plug-ins or extensions that simplify many coding exercises that take huge effort in NOF. And the WYS**** people even provide an extension building tool - that I have taken advantage of myself - see examples here.

    2. Why would you want to edit an image in any software other than a graphic editing programme - e.g Photoshop or similar?

    3. I also am sticking with NOF 11 and will not "upgrade". I have numerous sites built in various versions of NOF over the years and had it not been for this forum and many of its members I would have given up on NO years ago. NOF support was (and sadly IS) a joke and after having experienced WYS**** support, which is frankly first class, fast and comes from the actual author I can't imagine how NO have survived this long. What they offer as 'support' is beyond a joke, beyond laughable, it is profoundly sad....and, if I may be so bold, I would add that it is highly disrespectful to its paying customers.

    4. And yes, I have gone from NOF's number one fan to something quite different. Also sad huh?
    I TOTALLY agree with this. NOF support sucks! They have never figured out any ofmy problems. I have I either worked them out myself, or people on this forum have come through for me.

  6. #26
    Senior Member gotFusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaburm View Post
    I TOTALLY agree with this. NOF support sucks! They have never figured out any ofmy problems. I have I either worked them out myself, or people on this forum have come through for me.
    Many software companies have gone to paid per incident support for their products or paid subscription support. These can range upwards of 4 to 5 times the purchase price of the product per year or can start at $30 per call upwards to $200 for 2 or 3 calls. Neto did have a pay per call support system at one time. Personally I would like to see this again. That way people can decide if they want to "figure it out themselves for free" or pay for a qualified support person to walk them through. Many of the user issues are not understanding how the software works or failure to read the manual. NetObjects Fusion is a very complex and comprehensive piece of software (it will do just about everything for you). In reality it is easier to just learn HTML and CSS programing than it is to figure out the Fusion GUI but this is just my opinion.

    gotFusion has provided one on one product support (fee based) for the past 10 years. There are other sites that provide paid support for other software. It is not unusual for a business to spring up to fill user needs when the software is very complex.
    NetObjects Fusion Cloud Linux enabled Web Hosting, support + training starts at $14.95
    NetObjects Fusion web Hosting and support + ASP + PHP + ColdFusion + MySQL + MS SQL
    FREE NetObjects Fusion Support & training comes with all web hosting accounts
    NetObjects Fusion Web Hosting: http://www.gotHosting.biz

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLewis View Post
    This thread is all about what's wrong with Netobjects. I would like to see everyone who is happy with the NO 12 Update to post here what thay like about Netobjects and why they are not jumping ship. Everyone wanted the Version 12 patch. Now we have it and there still are complaints. Won't there always be complaints with any software? It would take a lot for me to jump ship from Netobjects, altjough I have to say that reading this thread makes me wonder. I am planning on investing a lot more time developing a site, and want to make certain from the beginning that I am using the right software with the least problems. Xara Web Designer looks attractive, though from what I read it cannot handle large sites. Also, I don't see in Xara were you can exclude a page from navigation while you are working on it, or exclude a page from puiblishing. So, I look at programs like Xara though always come back to Fusion. I want to hear from people who love Fusion, would never change, and know how to use the program. I do believe that many of the problems that people report turn out to be from "user error." From all the people who love Fusion, let us know why.
    From my point of view, NOF is the most easiest to use from a drag and drop design program point of view compared to D.W. and like. BUT, it's the lack of control of coding and bugs within the program that is the problem. GotFusion makes a good point about database. But he must keep in mind that many users aren't database and code savvy and that's kind of what NOF sells pitch is. Fast and easy without having to do what many highend designers and coders do. That's why many use it because of it's simplicity but hate the bugs that kick in when you open the program back up and things vanish etc. Scary unpredictable program. D.W. aka DreamWeaver is a learning curve program, but once you get it, it's consistent. It's not a drag and drop program which may push some of because they have to go into the code to make the same moves that it only takes a quick second to do in NOF. I also like that I can copy and pasted code and see it while I'm working on it. In NOF, I can't see it until I preview it.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfriedman View Post
    I have used NOF since version 1. I have built several websites two of which two are still accessible from the web. I have also tried to use DW and found it difficult to use. Frankly, DW is an overblown, overpriced piece of software like almost all of Adobe's software.

    NOF allows me to DESIGN web sites and keep the pages in a consistent format using the MasterBorders function. Although V 12 has had some rough spots that the update fixed for me, I will stick with NOF as long as it exists and use it to future web sites.

    I am a certificated Webmaster with IWG and know a considerable amount about XHTML and CSS. I am extremely thankful that NOF goes a long way to use these updated technologies without forcing me to dig into the HTML. I build websites to support my business, which is the selling of the books I write. I do not have the time to spend to have to fix the 100+ page websites one page at at time.

    For me, NOF is a productivity tool. Of course, I also keep an older version installed whenever an new version comes out.

    I also resent that NOF users have been called stupid or amateurish in this thread. I do not believe this only distracts from rational discussion.
    You're a certified webmaster? If you're really what you're posting, you'd also know that you can do that in Dreamweaver too. But you also pointed out that it's hard for you, over blow and over priced. Yeah D.W. has a learning curve, but I looked at a video and then went to a forum a few years back where there is a guy that is good at coding and use many of the Adobe programs. All that you need to do is add CSS code to one page and all pages will behave the same like in NOF unless you choose not to. And that's easy to do.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian View Post
    On 12/09/2011 14:55, JLewis wrote:
    > I do believe that many of the problems
    > that people report turn out to be from "user error."


    Not sure I agree with that one..... though it'd be a convenient excuse <g>

    Examples

    - the unwanted graphics optimisation issue that appeared in V12 and is
    apparently still there in V12.1 (I'm not going to d'load 12.1 so I'll
    never know!)

    - my latest favourite where NOF12 dumps a phantom duplicate copy of the
    most-recently edited text on top of the same text but offset. Disappears
    when you click elsewhere on the page, but reappears when you save. Not
    only irritating, but scary in a 'wonder what's about to fall over next' way.

    - NOF's tendency to fall in a heap when editing large tables

    - General crashes that result in the dreaded 'Damaged files' message,
    and various amounts of rebuilding work

    Hard to see how any of these are down to 'user error'....??

    Adrian
    ditto to this. Another example. When I'd linked my php mysql password in NOF 11, it asked for me to test to see if I have the correct info. It'd tell me that test failed. I was baffled, thinking that it was something that I was doing. I found out from a fellow user from out of Germany, confirmed that it work but NOF has a bug and doesn't show that the test passed. So I have to bypass the test part and upload it. I was lucky that someone on the forums saw this and informed me. Others are or won't be so lucky to find that bit of major info. out.

  10. #30
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    Adendum ~ I think that I will be leaving NOF behind as well. I have been busy researching alternative options including online services. Could you share which software that you choose for $45?

    Also wondering what would be the best way to move a pretty large site: www.natural-lifestyle.com

    Thanks!
    deb

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