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Thread: WYSIWYG 8

  1. #11
    Adrian
    Guest

    Default Re: WYSIWYG 8

    Hi

    On 27/11/2011 23:49, 1FugleyKiwi wrote:
    > yers, it does, and is hpeless at importing html.


    With respect - that's rubbish! (in my experience with 50 or so client
    sites in the last 6 months)
    WYSIWYG was very happy to import sites created in NOF11 and NOF12 -
    and did a much better job of importing sites than NOF ever did.

    Not to say that some things didn't need tweaking - but the basic look
    and feel, the layout, and the majority of the content imported fine.
    The latest version can now do a recursive import (follows site structure
    and collects all linked pages of that site)

    Adrian


  2. #12
    Adrian
    Guest

    Default Re: WYSIWYG 8

    Hi Charles / all

    I asked these questions of Pablo, via his forum.

    I posted the query at 09:55, his reply came at 10:15 -
    but then, he was also busy offering support in his various forums
    (he has more than one product) ...<g>

    About RTF - he says..
    --quote--
    Yes, RTF is being used for the text editor. We use the standard Windows
    text editing component (richedit). That is no secret.
    Who cares as long as it works? I have not been able to find a better
    alternative on the market which produces more accurate results.
    --unquote--

    So - yes - no underlying database to get screwed up and trash your
    website....(it happens!)

    About fixed page positioning he says..
    --quote--
    That is the whole point of the software! it was designed this way to
    make layouts like this possible. Unlike table based layouts which give
    unappreciated results and not really What-You-See-Is-WHat-You-Get. Note
    however that WWB also support table based layouts...
    --unquote--

    About mobile devices he says..
    --quote--
    Check my own website (http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com/) on any mobile
    device: it looks and works amazing! The carousel even supports swiping
    on touch screens! You cannot get any mobile friendly than that...
    --unquote--

    He is at pains to point out that he didn't create WYSIWYG as competition
    for NOF - but he created it the way he thought a
    What-You_see_Is_What_You_get web editor _should_ work.

    Regards
    Adrian



  3. #13
    Charles Edmonds
    Guest

    Default Re: WYSIWYG 8

    On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:12:04 +0000, Adrian wrote:

    > About RTF - he says..
    > --quote--
    > Yes, RTF is being used for the text editor. We use the standard Windows
    > text editing component (richedit). That is no secret.
    > Who cares as long as it works? I have not been able to find a better
    > alternative on the market which produces more accurate results.
    > --unquote--


    Thanks for the confirmation.

    There is no problem IMHO of using it at all.


    > So - yes - no underlying database to get screwed up and trash your
    > website....(it happens!)


    Been there - done that as have we all<g>.



    > About fixed page positioning he says..
    > --quote--
    > That is the whole point of the software! it was designed this way to
    > make layouts like this possible. Unlike table based layouts which give
    > unappreciated results and not really What-You-See-Is-WHat-You-Get. Note
    > however that WWB also support table based layouts...
    > --unquote--
    >
    > About mobile devices he says..
    > --quote--
    > Check my own website (http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com/) on any mobile
    > device: it looks and works amazing! The carousel even supports swiping
    > on touch screens! You cannot get any mobile friendly than that...
    > --unquote--


    I may have to disagree here.

    There is no way that a fixed page layout designed for a normal monitor can
    retain its full usefullness on all small devices.

    If he is using something like jQuery Mobile to totally reformat the page
    when a mobile device is detected ... then maybe.


    Of course don't get me wrong - NOF is not the ideal tool there as well.

    But fixed positioning does complicate things unless you design for the
    smallest size you expect to service.

    Even on the small NetBook type PC's - users don't like to scroll
    horizontally.

    So a fixed page designed to work on a NetBook can never flow outwards to
    allow users of the more common 19" (and larger widescreen monitors to take
    advantage of their hardware.

    I do allow for the fact that one needs to limit the length of lines to be
    readable, but it is nice on a large monitor when a site will flow to take
    advantage of it.


    > He is at pains to point out that he didn't create WYSIWYG as competition
    > for NOF - but he created it the way he thought a
    > What-You_see_Is_What_You_get web editor _should_ work.


    I understand that.


    Also FWIW, I am not criticizing what he has done or how it works. He seems
    to have done a good job there and support it well.

    I'm just not a proponent of fixed positioning in HTML.

    :-)

    Charles




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    www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
    www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
    and Forms - Now with PNG support!
    www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
    www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
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  4. #14
    Senior Member RayC's Avatar
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    Default

    Well, I bought WWB a few months ago, but I've never used it on a site because there are a couple of total show stoppers for me that I've never been able to get around.

    The primary one is not one of fixed width, but of fixed... everything. You need to define the length as well as width of each page.

    Virtually every site I build will have some sort of database driven aspect somewhere, like a News component or Blog, or whatever. The length of the output of these will vary depending on whether you're looking at (with News) a list of headlines, a search result or different articles of different lengths. The "solution" is to pop up internal scroll bars as if the compnent is in an I-Frame, which I find totally unacceptable.

    When I've asked about this, I get the same answer: "It's not designed to do that, because that would not be WYSIWYG." Well, for me, it makes any kind of dynamic web content impossible.
    Ray Cambpell
    Sounds In Sync
    Linked in

  5. #15
    Joe Rotello
    Guest

    Default Re: WYSIWYG 8

    On 11/27/2011 6:49 PM, 1FugleyKiwi wrote:
    > yers, it does, and is hpeless at importing html.
    >
    > I have just done a site in ms eXPRESSION wEB AS IT COULD IMPORT AN
    > EXISTING HTML SITE and allow me to edit and republish.
    >
    >

    Yes, WYSIWYG HTML file/website importing has improved, yet it actually
    did a credible job importing webpages and sites in the past, and does so
    today.

    NOF, being a HTML creator, has had an abysmal record in importing
    web-pages and sites, and it historically for years can not, even try to
    import websites or even webpages from servers that host virtual server
    websites.

    If one downloads a webpage or website to ones local computer, THEN ask
    WYSIWYG Web Builder or NOF 10/11/12 to open and import the downloaded
    site, NOF is still abysmal, while WYSIWYG does a much better job of it,
    albeit not 100% perfect.

    Joe

  6. #16
    Joe Rotello
    Guest

    Default Re: WYSIWYG 8

    Charles...

    It's been my observations that WYSIWYG Web Builder DOES support
    table-based layouts, at least here it does.

    NOF does a more extensive development and production of table-based
    layouts, yes, yet with care, WYSIWYG Web Builder does a credible job
    with them.

    Joe

    On 11/28/2011 2:55 AM, Charles Edmonds wrote:
    > On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:32:01 -0500, Joe Rotello wrote:
    >
    >> Yep. To me, coming from the late 80's and all, mark-up files are the
    >> predecessor to RTF and even to the likes of PDF.

    >
    > :-)
    >
    >
    >> You are right...Pablo's WYSIWYG bears strong family resemblance to RTF,
    >> possibly suitably modified for his or HTML's needs.

    >
    > I suspect the development tool he is using to give the WYSIWYG look and
    > feel is actually an RTF editor. Then he is exporting/converting to HTML.
    >
    > That would account for using the RTF format for storage.
    >
    > Of course that is just a guess.
    >
    > Either way Pablo seems to have put a lot of effort into it and is making it
    > better with each release.
    >
    > My biggest concern with that product's output is the use of fixed
    > positioning of page elements. It is just not flexible enough for the
    > multitude of devices out there IMHO.
    >
    > Even on non-handheld devices, the screen resolutions are all over the
    > place. Without something that will adapt, you have to design for the
    > lowest common denominator and on most of today's desktop monitors that
    > means a lot of unused space.
    >
    > Just my $.02...
    >
    > Charles
    >
    >



  7. #17
    Senior Member franko's Avatar
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    Default

    Well, I use em both. As I use a wide range of other tools, including BlueGriffon and HTMLKit and although I have and am expert it Photoshop 5 I still use products like uMark to handle batch watermarking of images - it's quicker and easier than using PS for it.

    I've had WB7 crash on me twice today, first losing about 2 hours of work. So now I've adopted my NoF SOP - hit save web site every time I do anything. Complex software crashes, especially when it's running on windows. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the software but modern OS's run so many processes simultaneously it's expected that a couple will conflict from time to time. I find it amazing that it rarely brings the whole computer to its knees but only crashes an application.

    For my money they're both good. Not perfect, but good. I'm not that fussed about importing web sites cause I'd rather rebuild one than import it and then tinker with it. Never found that successful with any software and clients can't understand why it costs them to do it. 'After all, the web site's already built; I just want you to make some updates.' "Yes, but I don't use Dreamweaver(or Front Page or webwonder or whatever so I have to get it into a form that I can use and that means you pay for it one way or the other. You should have gotten a developer to do it in the first place."

  8. #18
    Charles Edmonds
    Guest

    Default Re: WYSIWYG 8

    On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:14:58 -0500, Joe Rotello wrote:

    > It's been my observations that WYSIWYG Web Builder DOES support
    > table-based layouts, at least here it does.
    >
    > NOF does a more extensive development and production of table-based
    > layouts, yes, yet with care, WYSIWYG Web Builder does a credible job
    > with them.


    Thanks - I haven't looked into that aspect of it.

    Charles


    --
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Charles Edmonds
    cjeByteMeSpammers@lansrad.com (remove the "ByteMeSpammers" to email me)
    www.clarionproseries.com - ProScan, ProImage, ProPath and other Clarion
    developer tools!
    www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
    www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
    developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
    www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
    www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
    and Forms - Now with PNG support!
    www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
    www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  9. #19
    Adrian
    Guest

    Default Re: WYSIWYG 8

    Hi Franko

    Agreed that there is no one 'magic' tool that does everything.
    I can honestly say that Wissy has never crashed on me - can't say that
    about NOF10 / 11 / 12. Frequent backups is a good strategy - as we all
    know <g>

    It's probably a 'better' solution to rebuild sites from scratch - but
    when time is of the essence it helps to have a tool that does at least
    some of the work for you.

    OK on the 'my 10 year old son built our corporate website in Frontpage -
    will you take it on for us?' scenario. Been there, done that!

    More worrying was the client who had 2 years of confidential business
    emails under the hosting company's obscure IMAP software, with no local
    backup and no means of exporting to mail to anything sensible.

    Horses for courses - but the whole customer service / ongoing
    development / bug fix aspect is almost as important as the software
    itself (IMHO)

    Adrian

  10. #20
    Senior Member Beach Ape's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Now would you trust and make your projects and yourselves dependent on "Pablo" and Götz? Decide for yourselves!

    Peter

    P.S. I am missing any information on NetObjects Inc. on their website as well.
    LOL, so what have you said?

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