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Thread: Being really really really slow again - what's up???

  1. #41
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    The gal's got a real problem that is shared by many. Excuses for NOF's poorly written (actually, designed) drivers will not solve the problem. Until (and if) NO decides to fix some of these well known faults she, and the rest of us, need a work-around. When our industry first developed assemblers (yes, we used to write our programs in octal) it was considered a work-around but it grew into a great programming solution. So now she needs to know how she can -- within her budget -- create a computer environment that will minimize the problem. I gave her our solution and it is working just fine for us. If anyone on this forum has other workable work-arounds, please share them. Bad mouthing MS just shows your ignorance; please refrain.

  2. #42
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    Adrianjball - and forum monitor(s):
    I do hope NOF tech support is auditing your inputs because you are doing a very good job of defining the problem. Hang on to your documentation because it will be invaluable to them if they decide to start fixing bugs. Actualy, they have already fixed quite a few bugs and v12 is an improvement over earlier versions. They have also introduced new problems (this happoens when you change a program in an effort to improve its functioning). I had determined that graphics (any graphics) in a master border puts the brake on response. I also found that styles that worked for me in the past are no longer available. I did take an old web site (yes, I keep them all!) and remodeled it into the new site that I was working on. I've had no problems doing that and it is esasy to do. For some reaqson that old style ('Spring') is much easier to work with. Programs have personalities and we just have to determine how best to work with them. I hope you find a solution without too much more investment of your time.

  3. #43

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    Well, after 8 months of trying everything I could think of to fix my NoF problems I finally broke up the 177 pages into logical subject areas and exporting into 6 templates.

    That, in itself, was a challenge as the Export to Template failed because of a litany of different errors. But eventually I was able to create templates by manually addressing each error.

    Then I installed NoF Ver 12 on a fresh new computer and imported these new templates one at a time. I did bring over from my other machine a sub-directory that contains some 5,000 image files (.jpg).

    Running the Asset tools against each of these new template created sections uncovered errors from long discarded assets, paths and/or components, by manually fixing those one at a time, eventually each of these template loaded sections ran through the Asset tools, Re-optimize and Export to a new template error free.

    After each of these sections ran error free I created a new Index page and imported these sections to that page.

    I still need to fix some of the pages as the text formatting changed, but the entire site now runs reasonably fast. The section that seems to be the slowest is 77 pages, all the other sections are much smaller and run very quickly. Once I address the text formatting issues I might take break up the 77 page section and see if it's any specific page(s) that slow it down or just that it's large.

    A summary of the problems I was having:

    - NoF very slow
    - Memory leaks (which probably causes it to run slow)
    - NoF hangs
    - Unable to create a template
    - Re-optimize failed

    One other point:

    I tried erasing 176 of the 177 pages, leaving only the index page. I then erased "everything" on that page and tried to Re-optimize that blank page, the Re-optimize failed. This was a good clue that the .Nod for even this empty page had unseen artifacts from the past.

    We need a .Nod inspector utility.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by NOF-Newbie; 07-13-2012 at 09:55 PM.

  4. #44
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    To keep everyone up to date, I was making no progress so I opened a support ticket and asked them to read this thread. They replied fairly quickly and asked me to send a template of the site, for analysis. That sounded like progress! I did some more tests with the template, then uploaded it to an FTP server as it was about 200Mb. I have not heard from them in a week now, and the template file has not been downloaded. :-(

    The template file can be downloaded from ftp://anonymous@brishost.com:none@br...iMusicQLD2.zip if anyone would like to verify my results.
    This is what I told them, to go with the template:

    Ok, I made a new template to test, and then deleted the unused
    gallery photos from it. The resulting zip came down to just over
    200Mb.

    I created a site from it, and the site did create just fine (it
    didn't notice the missing and unused gallery folders). I then
    measured some page opening times and got the following:

    Links page from site view - 52s
    Piano page from page view - 1m15s
    Erica Booker page from page view - 0.7s
    WS12 page from page view - 56s
    GCPW12pay page from page view - 29s
    Gallery page from page view - 45s
    Piano page from page view - 1m7s
    Piano page from site view - 1m45s

    So far this is much better than the original, but still pages without
    a master border (or more specifically without a button bar in their
    master border, as I determined previously) open much faster. This
    timing would be workable though, if it stayed as above.

    But then I closed NOF12 (compacting the .NOF file) and restarted it.
    Timings then observed were:

    Piano page from site view - 15m30s
    Erica Booker page from site view - 0.5s
    Gallery page from page view - 9m10s
    Piano page from page view - 17m25s

    So the times have completely blown out by simply closing the site and
    re-opening it! These test were all done with a site created from the
    template file attached here. No edits were done to any of the pages
    when they were open.

    Hope this helps to locate the problem!

  5. #45
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    Well, I have some good news!

    NOF tech support finally got involved (thankyou Claudia!), downloaded my template, and saw the problem. She then did Tools - Re-optimize, which is a function I had not come across before.

    After that, the .nof file generated from the template shrunk to half its original size, several assets that previously verified fine no longer verified, several nav bars mysteriously changed style, and some links disappeared.

    I then did the re-optimize to the ORIGINAL site, and got very similar results. Going through the site page by page I also found some style changes to text fields, in addition to all the issues mentioned above. All those issues were easily fixed - redirected the assets to the actual location (where NOF thought they were before the re-optimize!), changed the nav bar styles back to what they used to be, re-linked the missing links, and changed back the changed styles.

    And the site now looks like it used to, but loads all pages quickly.

    So whatever the re-optimize function does, it obviously does a significant cleanup on the .nof database, maybe removing duplicates of things that are allocated differently in the duplicate item? Who knows! However, I do know that while it broke some aspects of the site it also fixed the speed problem. Fixing nav bars and style issues is easy if pages don't take 15mins to load!

    I hope this helps others with page load speed issues, and once again many thanks to Claudia from NOF tech support!

  6. #46
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    Default App slow - page change taking forever

    Quote Originally Posted by KayK View Post
    I am SOOO FRUSTRATED with this app being SOOOO incredibly slow moving from page to page. Today and yesterday (even after a restart), it's taking ONE MINUTE OR LONGER to change pages! TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. IT'S WORSE since the "update", not sure why I bothered and out $100. Updates are supposed to improve. I don't see it!

    I don't have any problems like this with my other apps (Dreamweaver is way fast and I wish I had developed the site on that!). WHY IS NETOBJECTS SUCH A PAIN??
    I can vouche for this experience on V12. Seems to be the root cause of poor programming and inadequate testing prior to software release. The major issue is, once the page count gets up to past about 60, the app enters some sort of pascal's triangle syndrome where it has to accomplish some sort of N-squared database accesses to complete the work to render the next page you are hoping to edit. Also, note, that clicking on items whilst the program is still churning is a quick way to bring about its demise. This is idnicative of poor programming technique for the Windows platform.

    Alas, I have not found work arounds for this. Nor for corrupted databases. That is to say, a glitch get's into the site file and is impossible to purge - leading to corrupted publishing of site elements that are auto generated by the app (i.e. primary buttons becoming secondary button images and so-on.)

    This POS needs some simple tender loving care and a update release. Any two bit programmer could fix it in a weekend so it was stable. IMHO.

    [user since NOF3.0 and stuck with it - managing a site with over 95 pages and hanging on for dear life.]

    Regards,
    NP

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by newpotato View Post
    The major issue is, once the page count gets up to past about 60, the app enters some sort of pascal's triangle syndrome where it has to accomplish some sort of N-squared database accesses to complete the work to render the next page you are hoping to edit
    No problem here on my large site (3,883 pages). It takes 2 seconds to go to the next sibling page. It can take 10 seconds for the hyperlink dialogue, find dialogue, or navigation pane to populate. Switching to site view takes a bit longer — maybe 12 or 15 seconds. Then back to page view or adding a new page takes about the same.

    I am not using the latest and fastest PC here, so it must be some specific issue that is causing this. Navigation bars are a likely cause. I use icons on my master borders for site navigation.
    AMD 64 3500 • 1 Gbyte RAM • onboard GeForce graphics Windows XP Home SP3
    My Web SiteA Brief NetObjects Fusion XII Review

  8. #48
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    I don't believe it's an issue with page count either. See my previous posts. The database seems to get confused when page elements are moved (location changed on disk, not moved on page!). The re-optimize function cleaned it up for me, and speed went back to being good. My guess is old locations are not forgotten, and the program spends time looking for the item in the wrong location. Newpotato - have you tried the re-optimize function? I have not seen a speed problem on any site since I started using it...

  9. #49
    Senior Member franko's Avatar
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    You should never, never, never, never move assets on disk outside of NoF - how can NoF possibly know where you've moved them to? It's not psychic. I have upwards of 100 sites on my hard drive, dating from about 2002. I have never had a problem with this because I always, always, always copy an asset to the site's assets folder first and then add it in NoF from that site's assets folder. That way the asset always stays in the site's on disk structure. My sites have been copied through 5 or 6 computer rebuilds/new computers in that time but because the assets are always where NoF expects to find them it never does have a problem finding them. It's just good computer management practice. This one things is the cause of most of the problems I've helped people with over the years.

  10. #50
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    Hi Franko. I have WAY too much stuff to just lump altogether in a single 'Assets' folder. I need to divide it up into separate folders so I can find things. And occasionally things need to be re-organized. Of course I always then tell NOF what the new location is - not even a complete idiot could expect it to by psychic. But telling NOF, while it does then know about the new location, doesn't keep the database happy. I believe it should. I don't think it's unfair to expect that. I also don't think it's unfair to expect NOF to allow me to keep assets organized and not all lumped together in one folder.

    So basically, in my experience, the database CAN be cleaned up. You need to first 'delete all unused assets' then do a 're-optimize' followed by a 'verify assets' and fix the locations of any assets it can't find after the re-optimize. That has recovered every site I had issues with, and I still have my assets neatly organized in different folders.

    Actually, it COULD be made psychic. A background service could watch for files being moved, and pop up: "NOF service noticed that you moved a file used in website 'XYZ'. Would you like the asset reference in the website to be updated to the new file location?". Only joking of course! I think the NOF development efforts are much better spent elsewhere. But it WOULD be possible...
    Last edited by adrianjball; 11-19-2012 at 01:17 AM. Reason: An idea..

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