Maybe 11 can answer this question about expandable pages

[William Patterson]

I have some old version 10 sites that are all done with dynamic setting but
are fixed at a width and as you all know are built with tables.
I have a banner and two other pictures that sit at the far right of the
banner so there is about 200 px of white space
Below that is a small gif and then a text box colored background and then to
the right of that another gif file. This is all in the top Master border.
Below that is a layout with a text box inside with content.
How can I make all the expand horizontally as the browser window size
changes. I can do this all with Divs in DW but would like to achieve the
same layout in the new NOF 11 but do not want to re-do the whole site or at
the very least just create a master border that will work and then make a
small change to the text box...somewhere I remember you can check a thing
call size to width??

Thanks

[Charles Edmonds]

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:59:34 -0700, William Patterson wrote:

> I have some old version 10 sites that are all done with dynamic setting but
> are fixed at a width and as you all know are built with tables.
> I have a banner and two other pictures that sit at the far right of the
> banner so there is about 200 px of white space
> Below that is a small gif and then a text box colored background and then to
> the right of that another gif file. This is all in the top Master border.
> Below that is a layout with a text box inside with content.
> How can I make all the expand horizontally as the browser window size
> changes. I can do this all with Divs in DW but would like to achieve the
> same layout in the new NOF 11 but do not want to re-do the whole site or at
> the very least just create a master border that will work and then make a
> small change to the text box...somewhere I remember you can check a thing
> call size to width??

I this day of ultra wide monitors and laptops, most users would not want
website content to cover the full width of the screen.

Plus it is problematic to make sites that work well in that environment.

Add in the fact that studies show that a visitor's eyes follow a classic
"F" pattern as they look at the page, and content that is to the far lower
right basically disappears.

If you do want to make your site center and work well in a browser that
happens to be maximized, then I'd recommend something like the "centered"
tutorials we have here:

http://www.ezround.com/centered

You could build your site at around 970 px wide and set the entire website
centered (either on a solid color or a patterned background). It will look
good, keep the content within the bounds of how far a user is willing to
look and be centered in all browsers.

As a bonus, you can use EZRound to add a border around the entire site or
even a drop shadow. This can really transform the standard NOF site styles
into an entirely different look and feel.

Feel free to download our trial version and experiment with it.

You can get that at http://www.ezround.com


Good luck on your projects!

Charles



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Donald Day]

Just to add my half penny's worth, I agree with Charles.
I use EZround for nearly all my sites, but I try not to let them be wider
than 800 px.

Donald

"Charles Edmonds" <cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com> wrote in message
news:8smrr9u4kky7.l89kf0l329ep.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:59:34 -0700, William Patterson wrote:
>
>> I have some old version 10 sites that are all done with dynamic setting
>> but
>> are fixed at a width and as you all know are built with tables.
>> I have a banner and two other pictures that sit at the far right of the
>> banner so there is about 200 px of white space
>> Below that is a small gif and then a text box colored background and then
>> to
>> the right of that another gif file. This is all in the top Master
>> border.
>> Below that is a layout with a text box inside with content.
>> How can I make all the expand horizontally as the browser window size
>> changes. I can do this all with Divs in DW but would like to achieve the
>> same layout in the new NOF 11 but do not want to re-do the whole site or
>> at
>> the very least just create a master border that will work and then make a
>> small change to the text box...somewhere I remember you can check a thing
>> call size to width??
>
> I this day of ultra wide monitors and laptops, most users would not want
> website content to cover the full width of the screen.
>
> Plus it is problematic to make sites that work well in that environment.
>
> Add in the fact that studies show that a visitor's eyes follow a classic
> "F" pattern as they look at the page, and content that is to the far lower
> right basically disappears.
>
> If you do want to make your site center and work well in a browser that
> happens to be maximized, then I'd recommend something like the "centered"
> tutorials we have here:
>
> http://www.ezround.com/centered
>
> You could build your site at around 970 px wide and set the entire website
> centered (either on a solid color or a patterned background). It will
> look
> good, keep the content within the bounds of how far a user is willing to
> look and be centered in all browsers.
>
> As a bonus, you can use EZRound to add a border around the entire site or
> even a drop shadow. This can really transform the standard NOF site
> styles
> into an entirely different look and feel.
>
> Feel free to download our trial version and experiment with it.
>
> You can get that at http://www.ezround.com
>
>
> Good luck on your projects!
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Charles Edmonds
> cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)
> www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
> www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
> www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
> and Forms!"
> www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
> www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Charles Edmonds]

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:43:50 +0100, Donald Day wrote:

> Just to add my half penny's worth, I agree with Charles.
> I use EZround for nearly all my sites, but I try not to let them be wider
> than 800 px.


Thanks Donald,

BTW - a handy little tool to have is "Sizer.exe".

You can get it free at:

http://www.brianapps.net/sizer.html

It runs in the tray and it allows you to quickly resize a window to the
standard sizes (such as 800x600).

I do my Preview (or local publish) in NOF, the run Sizer to resize the
browser window to the exact size I want to test on.

This makes it easy to tell if you need to adjust your width or height.

When designing for 800x600 I usually set the NOF overall width to be about
770 so that I don't force the scrollbars on a short page.

Of course you want to set all pages the same width if possible so that the
navigation (especially if it is horizontal) does not appear to "jump"
between page changes.

;-)

Charles




--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[William Patterson]

Thanks for all the ideas out there. IE has a developers toolbar that has
resize built in and so does the developers plugin for Firefox...which is
actually better than IE's I also noticed you can set the size of the site
in NOF and the preview browser window will open in that selected size.
I really like the centering and the corner thing I will have to play with
it. The problem I have to figure out is that I am using a navigational menu
system from Milonic on this site and it is fixed positioning. I can set the
menu to work inside a table cell but that can screw up the whole layout.
Will have to play with it since the NOF pages are already in a table it
really does not matter. I just have to see how much work it will be to
change from left side position to centered being that the site has 480 pgs.
Thanks again for the reassurance.
"Charles Edmonds" <cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com> wrote in message
news:1epff4a8ledr9$.4qnstw4x64qj.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:43:50 +0100, Donald Day wrote:
>
>> Just to add my half penny's worth, I agree with Charles.
>> I use EZround for nearly all my sites, but I try not to let them be wider
>> than 800 px.
>
>
> Thanks Donald,
>
> BTW - a handy little tool to have is "Sizer.exe".
>
> You can get it free at:
>
> http://www.brianapps.net/sizer.html
>
> It runs in the tray and it allows you to quickly resize a window to the
> standard sizes (such as 800x600).
>
> I do my Preview (or local publish) in NOF, the run Sizer to resize the
> browser window to the exact size I want to test on.
>
> This makes it easy to tell if you need to adjust your width or height.
>
> When designing for 800x600 I usually set the NOF overall width to be about
> 770 so that I don't force the scrollbars on a short page.
>
> Of course you want to set all pages the same width if possible so that the
> navigation (especially if it is horizontal) does not appear to "jump"
> between page changes.
>
> ;-)
>
> Charles
>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Charles Edmonds
> cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)
> www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
> www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
> www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
> and Forms!"
> www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
> www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[William Patterson]

Hey Charles I would love to see the tutorial and also try the trial software
but the site seems to have lost the DNS. All roads take me to "Cannot find
server or DNS Error". I can get to the page about the centering Tutorial
but none of the links to ezround.com seem to work.

"Charles Edmonds" <cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com> wrote in message
news:8smrr9u4kky7.l89kf0l329ep.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:59:34 -0700, William Patterson wrote:
>
>> I have some old version 10 sites that are all done with dynamic setting
>> but
>> are fixed at a width and as you all know are built with tables.
>> I have a banner and two other pictures that sit at the far right of the
>> banner so there is about 200 px of white space
>> Below that is a small gif and then a text box colored background and then
>> to
>> the right of that another gif file. This is all in the top Master
>> border.
>> Below that is a layout with a text box inside with content.
>> How can I make all the expand horizontally as the browser window size
>> changes. I can do this all with Divs in DW but would like to achieve the
>> same layout in the new NOF 11 but do not want to re-do the whole site or
>> at
>> the very least just create a master border that will work and then make a
>> small change to the text box...somewhere I remember you can check a thing
>> call size to width??
>
> I this day of ultra wide monitors and laptops, most users would not want
> website content to cover the full width of the screen.
>
> Plus it is problematic to make sites that work well in that environment.
>
> Add in the fact that studies show that a visitor's eyes follow a classic
> "F" pattern as they look at the page, and content that is to the far lower
> right basically disappears.
>
> If you do want to make your site center and work well in a browser that
> happens to be maximized, then I'd recommend something like the "centered"
> tutorials we have here:
>
> http://www.ezround.com/centered
>
> You could build your site at around 970 px wide and set the entire website
> centered (either on a solid color or a patterned background). It will
> look
> good, keep the content within the bounds of how far a user is willing to
> look and be centered in all browsers.
>
> As a bonus, you can use EZRound to add a border around the entire site or
> even a drop shadow. This can really transform the standard NOF site
> styles
> into an entirely different look and feel.
>
> Feel free to download our trial version and experiment with it.
>
> You can get that at http://www.ezround.com
>
>
> Good luck on your projects!
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Charles Edmonds
> cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)
> www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
> www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
> www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
> and Forms!"
> www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
> www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Charles Edmonds]

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:05:55 -0700, William Patterson wrote:

> Hey Charles I would love to see the tutorial and also try the trial software
> but the site seems to have lost the DNS. All roads take me to "Cannot find
> server or DNS Error". I can get to the page about the centering Tutorial
> but none of the links to ezround.com seem to work.

The server had about 20 minutes of downtime this morning. All our sites
were recently migrated to a new faster server and I think that something
had to be done to finalize things.

It appears to be fine now, so by all means give it a try again.

Thanks for letting us know about the server and for your interest in
EZRound!

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Charles Edmonds]

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:56:58 -0700, William Patterson wrote:

> Thanks for all the ideas out there. IE has a developers toolbar that has
> resize built in and so does the developers plugin for Firefox...which is
> actually better than IE's I also noticed you can set the size of the site
> in NOF and the preview browser window will open in that selected size.

Those are all good solutions.

I tend to not install any toolbars into IE7, but do use the FF one as
needed. The Sizer program is a nice way to do it without that (and it also
works with other applications). Since we do software development we use it
to simulate the user resizing a program window as well.

> I really like the centering and the corner thing I will have to play with
> it. The problem I have to figure out is that I am using a navigational menu
> system from Milonic on this site and it is fixed positioning. I can set the
> menu to work inside a table cell but that can screw up the whole layout.
> Will have to play with it since the NOF pages are already in a table it
> really does not matter. I just have to see how much work it will be to
> change from left side position to centered being that the site has 480 pgs.

I haven't used the Milonic menu, but if it is like others where you embed
it in the Master Border, maybe it will work out for you with a minimal
amount of work.

Good luck on your project!

Charles



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------