What's next for Netobjects?

[Charles Edmonds]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:14:06 -0500, Roscolo wrote:

> NOF does seem to be petering out, dying a slow death. But, it has seemed
> that way for a few years now.
>
> If it ends with version 11, I think 11 will serve my purposes for a few
> years yet anyway, so no biggie. Sad to see it end, though.

I don't see it that way at all.


For the first time in YEARS I see NOF as having a chance to be what it
should be - a software company.

Keep in mind that this is the first time in a LONG time that the owners of
the company (who are not strangers to NOF in any way) to concern themselves
with the business of creating great website design software - not selling
websites or web services.

I don't see it as the end, but rather a new beginning.

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
cjeByteMeSpammers@lansrad.com (remove the "ByteMeSpammers" to email me)
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Charles Edmonds]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:34:25 -0500, Andy Hoyt wrote:

> With all of us dedicated
> NOFites/NOFties/NOFoids/NOFnerds/NOFwhatever-we-are screaming (virtually
> or otherwise) for news I can only hypothesize that the techies who
> acquired everything are woefully lacking in marketing skills.

Believe me they would not be the first company with a great product to do
that<g>.

I've been a Clarion developer since the early 80's and while it is a
fantastic tool for productivity (not unlike NOF in a lot of ways), the
company simply does not have it together in the marketing department (let
alone customer relations).

Fortunately (like NOF) the product is a great tool with fantastic peer
support and communication.


> Just imagine what would/could happen if the collective talent in this
> newsgroup was turned loose on that aspect of whatever it might be that's
> coming down the pike. Heck, I'd even comb my hair and put in my good
> teeth for the occasion.

LOL - for sure<g>

I can appreciate the effort it takes to put together a deal like this (our
last multi-million dollar deal took 6 months to get to contract and that
was AFTER we sold it). Of course the new guys have had to setup everything
again on the back end (both the business and support systems) as well as
working on the code, so I am sure they have had their hands full.

Hopefully next year will see everything in alignment and the
marketing/communication side of things will get the consideration it
deserves.

:-)

Charles




--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
cjeByteMeSpammers@lansrad.com (remove the "ByteMeSpammers" to email me)
www.clarionproseries.com - "Get ProPath, make your Clarion programs ready
for Windows 7 and Vista!"
www.ezchangelog.com - "Free ChangeLog software to manage your projects!"
www.setupcast.com - "A revolutionary new publishing system for software
developers - enhanced for SetupBuilder users!"
www.pagesnip.com - "Print and Save the Web, just the way you want it!"
www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Marc]

I just want to say that I have bought the Template pack v3 last week and
since I had some problems with the wrong version, I contacted NetObjects and
they have been prompt and helpful, as well as the german contractor
"Asknet". Both are very helpful and I think that proves at least that they
are ALIVE! ;-)

marc


"Twayne" <nobody@spamcop.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:hfs3nb$2or$1@DailyPlanet.news.netobjects.com. ..
> In news:a0f9rhf49af5.db9tb69w37rh$.dlg@40tude.net,
> Charles Edmonds <cjeByteMeSpammers@lansrad.com> typed:
>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 20:38:31 -0500, John Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> What's coming from the new Netobjects? I've been a loyal customer.
>>> But there has nothing on the Netobjects website about Netobjects 12.
>>> Makes one wonder. I think what we have here is a failure to
>>> communicate. What happened to the new customers-first philosphy of
>>> the new Netobjects?
>>
>> Those who know can't say anything ( NDA agreements ), but I would not
>> worry about the future of NOF one bit if I were you...
>
> Charles, you probably mean well, but: I am SO tired of reading that crap!
> NDAs (non disclosure agreements) or not, there is absolutely no reason for
> any company hoping to go into the black eventually to not do something to
> keep themselves visible to their install base and the general public at
> large. The web site is now nearly useless and certainly anything that
> could be a benefit to NOF as product other than sucking in a few more
> unsuspecting mortals to get their money. I find that to be a very serious
> problem and one worthy of writing them off.
> The only version of an NDA set/s I can think of that would justify what
> we're seeing is taking the product off in another direction where
> government contracts are involved and it'll no longer be a public
> offering. If anyone who knows about NDAs and how things work can think of
> another reason, I'd like to hear it for consideration. I doubt there can
> be one that's good for "us", the current installed base.
> The only logical reason I can think of is that whatever is going on is
> something the install base in particular is going to be quite upset about
> and the general public at large is going to see as another, new,
> fantasstic product that appears to compete with NOF. Or, nothing.
> Otherwise it can only be a case of serious ignorance and a complete lack
> of interest in furthering the product as we know it. Knowing absolutely
> nothing of the group that supposedly took it over, it's also possible that
> internal squabbling has trashed the whole thing too I suppose. When
> things don't make sense, there is often a very serious and negative reason
> for it.
> I can think of NO situation other than gvt contracts where a business
> model would completely disappear from sight as has happened here that
> could lead to anything good for the existing product or future upgrades to
> it from a current user's view.
>
> Rant aside, I'd love to be wrong and do hope something good comes of it
> but I no longer feel that's possible. I like NOF11 but should anything
> come up that requires I adjust my design set, it certainly won't be
> anything that requires any association with NOF.
>
> Amazon says:
>
> o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o
> o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o
>
>
>
> Currently unavailable.
> We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.
>
>
> which pretty much reflects all the sites I checked that used to carry it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Twayne`
>
>
>
>
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Charles
>
>

[John Lewis]

I appreciate the comments from others following my original post. Overall, I
see hope. I do. However, I purchased Netobjects stock when it was $7 and
watched it soar to $45. I never sold it and it went down to 2 cents. I kept
hoping for the best. Hope waned. Then Website Pros bought Netobjects and my
hope was restored. New versions came out. Great! McGraw Hill published David
Plotkin's book, How to Do Everything in Netobjects 11 - more good news. Then
very little came from Netobjects itself. It was good news that Netobjects
was being spun off into its own company---with a PROMISE to customer
service. I thought at least there would be regular updates. At least a "Hey,
we're working hard. Stick with us." But nothing at all in a long time. I
guess it's true - Hope Dies Last. I think I can last until January. But
eventually I will move on to a company that cares about communicating with
me and its other customers. It would be a sad day for me.


"Twayne" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:hfs3nb$2or$1@DailyPlanet.news.netobjects.com. ..
> In news:a0f9rhf49af5.db9tb69w37rh$.dlg@40tude.net,
> Charles Edmonds <cjeByteMeSpammers@lansrad.com> typed:
>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 20:38:31 -0500, John Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> What's coming from the new Netobjects? I've been a loyal customer.
>>> But there has nothing on the Netobjects website about Netobjects 12.
>>> Makes one wonder. I think what we have here is a failure to
>>> communicate. What happened to the new customers-first philosphy of
>>> the new Netobjects?
>>
>> Those who know can't say anything ( NDA agreements ), but I would not
>> worry about the future of NOF one bit if I were you...
>
> Charles, you probably mean well, but: I am SO tired of reading that crap!
> NDAs (non disclosure agreements) or not, there is absolutely no reason for
> any company hoping to go into the black eventually to not do something to
> keep themselves visible to their install base and the general public at
> large. The web site is now nearly useless and certainly anything that
> could be a benefit to NOF as product other than sucking in a few more
> unsuspecting mortals to get their money. I find that to be a very serious
> problem and one worthy of writing them off.
> The only version of an NDA set/s I can think of that would justify what
> we're seeing is taking the product off in another direction where
> government contracts are involved and it'll no longer be a public
> offering. If anyone who knows about NDAs and how things work can think of
> another reason, I'd like to hear it for consideration. I doubt there can
> be one that's good for "us", the current installed base.
> The only logical reason I can think of is that whatever is going on is
> something the install base in particular is going to be quite upset about
> and the general public at large is going to see as another, new,
> fantasstic product that appears to compete with NOF. Or, nothing.
> Otherwise it can only be a case of serious ignorance and a complete lack
> of interest in furthering the product as we know it. Knowing absolutely
> nothing of the group that supposedly took it over, it's also possible that
> internal squabbling has trashed the whole thing too I suppose. When
> things don't make sense, there is often a very serious and negative reason
> for it.
> I can think of NO situation other than gvt contracts where a business
> model would completely disappear from sight as has happened here that
> could lead to anything good for the existing product or future upgrades to
> it from a current user's view.
>
> Rant aside, I'd love to be wrong and do hope something good comes of it
> but I no longer feel that's possible. I like NOF11 but should anything
> come up that requires I adjust my design set, it certainly won't be
> anything that requires any association with NOF.
>
> Amazon says:
>
> o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o
> o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o
>
>
>
> Currently unavailable.
> We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.
>
>
> which pretty much reflects all the sites I checked that used to carry it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Twayne`
>
>
>
>
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Charles
>
>

[Nancy O]

<I think I can last until January>

John, What does that mean? The last time I checked, NOF 11 didn't come with
an
expiration date. It will continue to work long into the future (with or
without updates).

I still maintain a site in NOF8 for which I have not received a single
update in several years. Still, the product works just fine. It's not the
tool, it's the person using it. If you have any coding skills, you can do
just about anything you care to do in NOF - no matter which version(s) you
have.

<I purchased Netobjects stock when it was $7 and watched it soar to $45. I
never sold it and it went down to 2 cents.>

Psst, want to trade your NOF shares for some preferred banks stocks? If you
fold and laminate them, they make very attractive coasters.

<I will move on to a company that cares about communicating with me and its
other customers.>

Try calling Microsoft or Adobe Customer service sometime. Oh, yeah, and
while you're on hold, don't hold your breath waiting for THEM to communicate
with you about what's in their projected pipeline. You'll be dead by then.
Sorry, for the sarcasm. But a reality check is definitely in order here.
Nobody owes you any explanations about the future of the company or their
products. Either you like and use a company's products or you don't.
It's that simple.


--
Nancy O.
Alt-Web Design & Publishing
Web | Graphics | Print | Media Specialists
www.alt-web.com/
-------------------------------------------
NOF Tips & Tutorials
www.alt-web.com/Tutorials/
------------------------------------------
www.twitter.com/altweb/
www.alt-web.blogspot.com

[Waterspider]

"Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
news:hgbhsj$d1v$1@DailyPlanet.news.netobjects.com. ..

> Nobody owes you any explanations about the future of the company or their
> products. Either you like and use a company's products or you don't.
> It's that simple.
>
Bottom line, well said.

[Roscolo]

I've been using NOF for a long time. And I agree, it still works for a
lot of what I do, so if it dies here and now, I'll continue to use NOF
11 for some time.

But what the OP said in his initial post was, "I think what we have here
is a failure to communicate." He followed that up with, "Netobjects
should know that the best way to keep customers is to
keep them informed."

Does NOF owe anyone anything? Nope. No one "owes" anyone anything. But
in business communicating with current and future customers is important
or that business will find out pretty quick that those customers also
don't "owe" them their patronage.

NOF doesn't owe anyone. But maybe the attitude you are talking about
might explain why they have lost market share to the point of hanging by
a thread. Their website hasn't been updated in months. If I did not
communicate with my customers and didn't update my website and stay in
touch, I would be out of business. Again, I'm happy with 11. And I'll
use it for a long time. But the OP has a valid point with what he
actually said in his initial post. Just looking at how many users have
dropped off the forums may be a sign of how well the "we don't owe our
customers anything" philosophy works. NetObjects not only does not
appear to be gaining new users, the lack of communication may bear some
responsibility for losing some of the loyal users.

That said, I hope NOF turns around and makes a comeback!


Nancy O wrote:

>
> Try calling Microsoft or Adobe Customer service sometime. Oh, yeah, and
> while you're on hold, don't hold your breath waiting for THEM to communicate
> with you about what's in their projected pipeline. You'll be dead by then.
> Sorry, for the sarcasm. But a reality check is definitely in order here.
> Nobody owes you any explanations about the future of the company or their
> products. Either you like and use a company's products or you don't.
> It's that simple.
>
>

[Waterspider]

"Roscolo" <roscolo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:hgdiu5$ccr$1@DailyPlanet.news.netobjects.com. ..
> I've been using NOF for a long time. And I agree, it still works for a lot
> of what I do, so if it dies here and now, I'll continue to use NOF 11 for
> some time.
>
> But what the OP said in his initial post was, "I think what we have here
> is a failure to communicate." He followed that up with, "Netobjects should
> know that the best way to keep customers is to
> keep them informed."
>
> Does NOF owe anyone anything? Nope. No one "owes" anyone anything. But in
> business communicating with current and future customers is important or
> that business will find out pretty quick that those customers also don't
> "owe" them their patronage.
>
> NOF doesn't owe anyone. But maybe the attitude you are talking about might
> explain why they have lost market share to the point of hanging by a
> thread. Their website hasn't been updated in months. If I did not
> communicate with my customers and didn't update my website and stay in
> touch, I would be out of business. Again, I'm happy with 11. And I'll use
> it for a long time. But the OP has a valid point with what he actually
> said in his initial post. Just looking at how many users have dropped off
> the forums may be a sign of how well the "we don't owe our customers
> anything" philosophy works. NetObjects not only does not appear to be
> gaining new users, the lack of communication may bear some responsibility
> for losing some of the loyal users.
>
> That said, I hope NOF turns around and makes a comeback!
>
>
So the whole issue is about their poor advertising campaigns, rather than
lack of advising current customers about future comany plans? This is an
area closer to my trade, so I agree that their advertising is badly managed.
I would be sad to see the product halted, but that's the nature of business.
There's more to software development success than a top-notch program and
decent customer support, but maybe the board/management believes they're
doing the right thing. Maybe they're stuck with useless marketing people.
Maybe they're negotiating with Adobe. I have that uncomfortable feeling in
my gut, the one that I had when it started to look like Amiga was going down
the toilet.

Hey, NOF! Anybody out there? My business is marketing, and I'd love to send
you some good ideas.

[John Lewis]

Points well taken.

"Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
news:hgbhsj$d1v$1@DailyPlanet.news.netobjects.com. ..
> <I think I can last until January>
>
> John, What does that mean? The last time I checked, NOF 11 didn't come
> with
> an
> expiration date. It will continue to work long into the future (with or
> without updates).
>
> I still maintain a site in NOF8 for which I have not received a single
> update in several years. Still, the product works just fine. It's not the
> tool, it's the person using it. If you have any coding skills, you can
> do
> just about anything you care to do in NOF - no matter which version(s)
> you
> have.
>
> <I purchased Netobjects stock when it was $7 and watched it soar to $45.
> I
> never sold it and it went down to 2 cents.>
>
> Psst, want to trade your NOF shares for some preferred banks stocks? If
> you
> fold and laminate them, they make very attractive coasters.
>
> <I will move on to a company that cares about communicating with me and
> its
> other customers.>
>
> Try calling Microsoft or Adobe Customer service sometime. Oh, yeah, and
> while you're on hold, don't hold your breath waiting for THEM to
> communicate
> with you about what's in their projected pipeline. You'll be dead by
> then.
> Sorry, for the sarcasm. But a reality check is definitely in order here.
> Nobody owes you any explanations about the future of the company or their
> products. Either you like and use a company's products or you don't.
> It's that simple.
>
>
> --
> Nancy O.
> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
> Web | Graphics | Print | Media Specialists
> www.alt-web.com/
> -------------------------------------------
> NOF Tips & Tutorials
> www.alt-web.com/Tutorials/
> ------------------------------------------
> www.twitter.com/altweb/
> www.alt-web.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>

[John Lewis]

Points also well taken. I love Netobjects. I would just like to feel
confident that NOF appreciates us and has some plans---that someone is there
and that the lights are on. I remember a long time ago when I use to get the
NOF Annual Report. I felt great when I received it.

"Roscolo" <roscolo@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:hgdiu5$ccr$1@DailyPlanet.news.netobjects.com. ..
> I've been using NOF for a long time. And I agree, it still works for a lot
> of what I do, so if it dies here and now, I'll continue to use NOF 11 for
> some time.
>
> But what the OP said in his initial post was, "I think what we have here
> is a failure to communicate." He followed that up with, "Netobjects should
> know that the best way to keep customers is to
> keep them informed."
>
> Does NOF owe anyone anything? Nope. No one "owes" anyone anything. But in
> business communicating with current and future customers is important or
> that business will find out pretty quick that those customers also don't
> "owe" them their patronage.
>
> NOF doesn't owe anyone. But maybe the attitude you are talking about might
> explain why they have lost market share to the point of hanging by a
> thread. Their website hasn't been updated in months. If I did not
> communicate with my customers and didn't update my website and stay in
> touch, I would be out of business. Again, I'm happy with 11. And I'll use
> it for a long time. But the OP has a valid point with what he actually
> said in his initial post. Just looking at how many users have dropped off
> the forums may be a sign of how well the "we don't owe our customers
> anything" philosophy works. NetObjects not only does not appear to be
> gaining new users, the lack of communication may bear some responsibility
> for losing some of the loyal users.
>
> That said, I hope NOF turns around and makes a comeback!
>
>
> Nancy O wrote:
>
>>
>> Try calling Microsoft or Adobe Customer service sometime. Oh, yeah, and
>> while you're on hold, don't hold your breath waiting for THEM to
>> communicate
>> with you about what's in their projected pipeline. You'll be dead by
>> then.
>> Sorry, for the sarcasm. But a reality check is definitely in order here.
>> Nobody owes you any explanations about the future of the company or their
>> products. Either you like and use a company's products or you don't.
>> It's that simple.
>>