Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: NOF13 is an update, not an upgrade

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    14

    Default NOF13 is an update, not an upgrade

    I've just upgraded to NOF13. Here is my report:

    The only main UI change is that it has a Windows 8-type home page.

    Incredibly, it still doesn't properly support Windows 7 Libraries folder - I click on the libraries folder to open a file and I get only the top level folders. I have sub-folders within my libraries folders but I have to navigate through the top-level folder to find them again.

    Some necessary and fundamental changes have STILL NOT BEEN ADDRESSED. The data objects are EXACTLY THE SAME as before (in fact, I don't think they've changed since around NOF 7). The data objects interface is still the same old clunky Windows XP ODBC interface, and there is no way to modify an existing Data List or External Data Object. The only workaround - as before - is to create a completely new data object and copy & paste the design pages from the old stacked page to the newly-generated stacked pages and then remove the previous objects and pages. And because it still relies on the old Windows ODBC utility, there is still no support for Access 2010 or Excel data sources (let alone Office 2013 or beyond)!

    There is also no change in how the "header" page of a data list is produced either. It's still not possible to design it. I've never been able to use it, so I've always had to produce my own separate HTML document manually.

    HTML5. This is a big improvement as all my sites now are in HTML5. However, many of my pages use layered content, therefore I can't choose HTML5 as an option! I still have to use HTML4.01 CSS (without tables) - or at least choose this for the layout containing the overlapping objects (which is usually the entire page anyway).

    Overlapping objects is perhaps the main reason why I continue to use NOF. I have a background image over which I place a table of database-generated content; and I have mouse actions that switch in different videos in an in-line frame. And there's a still image in place until the videos play. I don't think there is any other way to implement this kind of feature. NOF WYSIWIG drag-and-drop design is clean and accurate. Nevertheless, what is still missing is a way to manually specify XYZ coordinates for super-precise control of (overlapping) objects.

    NOF hasn't improved all that much yet overall. In fact, I only use NOF for data-generated sites (despite the serious limitations due to the poor ODBC interfacing). All my sites now are produced using Joomla, which has improved dramatically over the last year or so - and I can integrate very easily with MySQL databases and other real-time data sources. There is also a wealth of templates to choose from, far more flexible that NOF's templates, which tend to be always very blocky in design. I use NOF to produce the equivalent of static HTML ebooks, which I then integrate into my Joomla website as an external page, so NOF templates have become superfluous.

    NOF 12 was extraordinarily slow, it took sometimes as much as 10 seconds to open up a page, and about the same time to move from cell to cell in a table to edit its contents (and I have a reasonably fast computer with 8MB RAM and Windows 7). Now it takes about 8 seconds to open a page from the site page and about 3 seconds to move from page to page with the site navigation feature. That's a slight improvement. And there does seem to be a significant speed improvement when editing tables - about one second to open a cell for editing.

    I'm not sure if there's been any improvement in the layout of tables. In NOF12, it was almost impossible to specify column widths or row heights, particularly if there are merged cells involved. Usually the only way is to edit the HTML tags manually after the page has been generated. Nevertheless, I think the accuracy (or stability) of cell/row sizing and placement has improved slightly.

    There's no documentation available for NOF 13, so I suppose it's the same documentation as NOF 12.

    This 2013 version is really a NOF12 update not a major upgrade. I'd be happy to pay for significant improvements to help support the development and future of NOF; but only around $20 or so, not $64. It's a bit sneaky to charge so much for what should have been a free update. This is update is a necessary "fix" for the sluggish NOF12 version, and should really have been part of the initial purchase contract.

    However, if there were a good likelihood of some REAL practical improvements to the product (particularly a new or better way of handling external data, and accurate tweaking of tables using pixel values or specific HTML tags) then I'll pay gladly! Don't cheat your customers: it just creates resentment; but give us value for money and your product will grow in popularity. Your major competitors in today's world of web publishing are Joomla, Drupal and Wordpress, and their basic underlying products are FREE. One only pays for specialist add-ons, and usually not much. It's a far more flexible way to produce websites. If you pursue your current policy then you're simply pushing new and existing customers away. The potential strength of NOF is as mentioned above: accurate page design for specific pages (difficult to do in Joomla, say) and perhaps - if you can make it work as it should - live or static data-driven content. Ideally, NOF should have a feature to seamlessly integrate pages into a Joomla/Drupal/Wordpress site. In fact, NOF would sell better as an add-on to these CMS products than a website-in-a-box package.

    I suspect there has been some important improvements "under the hood" - some of the previous delays may have been due to the use of external .Net or C++ libraries I don't know. But NOF still needs a fairly major overhaul - a tighter way of managing external data, global support for HTML5 and overlapping objects, integral Ajax design and auto-generation / management of multiple page sizes for the different mobile/tablet devices.

  2. #2

    Default

    Monday, July 29, 2013 NOF needs to learn a lesson from Gravity forms for Wordpress as they are the PROFESSIONALS in creating and delivering Email Forms. I feel NOF is probably NOW being developed in a 3rd World country since it can't even deliver a manual for the last 3 versions. It's CRYSTAL CLEAR there is a language problem not a TASK problem! NOF is becoming more and more of a struggle than when it was first developed, at least then there was documentation and good support. If you are on a budget then the upgrade is not worth the effort as it's been released without even a manual....this makes it just another BETA version as everyone needs to fend for themselves.

  3. #3
    Senior Member gotFusion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    www.gotHosting.biz
    Posts
    4,529

    Default

    Fusion has not changed since it was first released in 1996 and for this I am very grateful

    There is nothing worse than having to learn a completely different piece of software every time a company brings out a new version of the same product.
    NetObjects Fusion Cloud Linux enabled Web Hosting, support + training starts at $14.95
    NetObjects Fusion web Hosting and support + ASP + PHP + ColdFusion + MySQL + MS SQL
    FREE NetObjects Fusion Support & training comes with all web hosting accounts
    NetObjects Fusion Web Hosting: http://www.gotHosting.biz

  4. #4
    Senior Member franko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tasmania Australia
    Posts
    2,639

    Default

    Just a reminder - this is the forum for NetObjects Fusion. Please, trolls, stop using it to push (your?) competitive products and stop prosyletizing. This may come as a surprise to you, but many of use here, such as Mike and myself and a number of others, have been developing web sites for nearly 20 years and are quite capable of evaluating products as they come out ourselves. We don't need hype artists for competitors taking up time and space here. We're too busy.

  5. #5

    Default

    I don't understand all this ruckus about the truth! Everyone who has worked in software (not on websites) knows that software stinks. We load stinking software on top of stinking operating systems. It takes years and even decades to improve software quality, and we are producing new versions much faster that we can fix them. Every graduate who can walk becomes a software developer. We outsource to places which use the same person on three simultaneous projects and is billed three times to different parties. We count "bodies", not expertise. Why should we be surprised? Moreover, why should we get angry when someone points it out? Example: how long did it take for MS Word to get rid of memory leaks?
    Our goal in life should be to find the least stinky software.
    On the other hand, I know a French pastry shop in Chicago which makes fantastic Millefeuilles which, unlike software, do not stink!

  6. #6
    Senior Member franko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tasmania Australia
    Posts
    2,639

    Default

    Levendel - you are perfectly correct. This is precisely the reason my webservers are still running Solaris 8 - patched to be sure, but still Solaris 8. They never fail, they're fast and can handle the load and I still reckon the Sun Sparc is the best server for the web that has so far been produced (although it remains to be seen what Oracle do with them).

    If NoF was built to run on *nix it would be a far better product because it would be running on a far better, far more stable operating system with nearly 50 years of development.

    Also the reason I tend to get angry when people use this forum to schlep other competing software is because I consider it rude and discourteous. Try doing it on the Artisteer forum - your post will be removed as soon as one of the moderators sees it. The NoF mods are, IMHO, extremely elastic when it comes to people discussing other software, and I don't have any problem with people genuinely discussing other software, especially if it can be used in conjunction with NoF to produce a better outcome for the user. But it pisses me off when people post with no other intention than to run down fusion and to hype whatever other software they're being paid to hype (can you spell 'ambush marketing?')
    Last edited by franko; 10-28-2013 at 02:09 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member 1FugleyKiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Playford Waters, South Australia
    Posts
    476

    Default

    Two Thumbs up for franko.

    These "schlepers" all also seem to be "long time users" and yet only have 3 or 4 posts in the forum. Not very sharing if they are that experienced.

  8. #8
    Senior Member warrenr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    158

    Default

    I started using the free version of NOF a few years ago and upgraded to NOF12 soon after it was released! I have just upgraded to NOF13 mainly because I saw that it had Carousel technology built in! I have been creating my own Flash .swf files but with more and more devices unable to run Flash I have had many clients complaining! While I have never used Joomla, Drupal or Wordpress myself I have of course seen many sites produced using these products and I must say they can produce some pretty amazing stuff!
    I have been very disappointed with NOF13 in that Carousel facility is extremely limited and I don’t want to have to use third party products. NOF made a big thing in their advertising about the Jquery/Carousel being a big new feature, but in fact it’s very limited.
    I would have to agree with “Orish” that NOF13 is really an upgrade to NOF12 not a new product.
    I am also one of those who does not post much on the Forum as the few times I have posted you end up with the likes of “gotFusion” trying to fob you off with third party products when all you want is NOF to do what the competition offer standard!!!!!!

  9. #9
    Senior Member LBA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    543

    Default

    Warrenr, you make some good points about NOF 13 and Carousel but I would respectfully like to address your comment about gotfusion (turtle/Mike) and 3rd party products. First and most importantly, there are few people who have continuously offered more to the continued life of NOF than turtle/Mike/gotfusion. There are many in this forum who donate time and expertise to help users solve their daily NOF issues but it's hard to match the contributions Mike (let's settle upon his real name) has made. With patience and a clear understanding of the software... of what it can do and what it can't do... he has consistently provided accurate and helpful solutions and information for over a dozen years that I'm aware of. And the suggestion that he attempts to fob off 3rd party products when NOF should be able to do it internally is unfair and not realistic. It doesn't make sense to expect NOF to provide us with every webdesign-related tool that we need. Yes, NOF has some rudimentary tools for creating graphics but who would blame NOF for not having the capabilities of an outside tool like Photoshop? NOF is a page design tool and even though it contains some features that attempt to go beyond that, few of us turn to our page design software to create graphics, to produce PHP code for MySql, to create slideshows and carousels and web stores and flash code (now obsolete) and numerous other things. If we are looking for off-the-shelf solutions to those problems, NOF offers one or two of them to choose from but the great big world out there offers so many more that I wouldn't want to close off all those possibilities by restricting myself to what NOF provides internally. Carousels, for example, are implemented in many different ways and if you avail yourself to what's out there, and not just one solution that NOF offers, you are bound to come across something that will be just right for you. And many are free. Dynamicdrive.com, often mentioned on these pages for items such as slideshows and rollovers and carousels, has great solutions that integrate easily into NOF. So, yes, I suppose it would be handy if dynamicdrive's many hundreds of scripts were all neatly built into NOF but it's not realistic to ask for that and you can achieve the same thing by seeking the solutions on your own... and with the help of generous people like Mike.

  10. #10
    Senior Member warrenr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    158

    Default

    I realise that “Mike” is very knowledgeable about NOF and I have learnt allot from some of his articles on his website. However there are two issues.

    1. If NOF is to be let off the hook by saying that they can’t “provide us with every webdesign-related tool that we need” we should be using another tool that can, or at least one that can provide us with the major tools that our clients are demanding. I agree with comments posted on other threads on the forum about E-Commerce modules for instance. E-Commerce is a very involved area with all sorts of variables. NOF shouldn’t even include the limited module that they have, but rather concentrate on providing a better core product and let us developers find a third party product that fulfills our customer needs. By the way it was only after reading one of “Mikes” articles that I found out how to even use the imbedded module! I also agree that it shouldn’t include Photoshop type facilities. I myself use GIMP for that.

    2. That said I estimate sliding banners and decent galleries are a basic requirement of more than 80% of the clients I handle. I can only assume it is similar for most developers! Therefore NOF should include something that provides us with the necessary options to fulfill these needs without having to revert to cumbersome Third Party products! Their current offering is way below Par!!!!!

    Please don’t get me wrong I think NOF is a good product and I have investigated Joomla, Drupal, Wordpress and discarded them for various reasons. I would like to see NOF become a great product as I have invested a lot of time and effort in learning it!

    The purpose of this Forums Thread should be to convey to NOF its clients, (Our) requirements and improve future Updates and Upgrades. On that point I rarely see an interaction from NOF with regard to any threads specifically those posted under NetObjects Fusion 2013 Installations and Upgrades!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •