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Thread: Fusion 13 - Worth the upgrade!

  1. #1

    Default Fusion 13 - Worth the upgrade!

    I ran fusion 4, 5, 6, MX, 8, 10, 11 it only got worse and worse after MX. In fact I am crippled again due to a Microsoft visual c error that comes up in my fusion 11 pro, I expect (if the gods shine on me) 1 week it will be fixed, that would be tomarrow!!

    It takes a good 2 - 4 months to SOMETIMES get someone to fix my fusion and now that I am the ONLY client left from over 30 in the past that still runs fusion I am wondering have the Fusion people got there act straight yet with version 13.

    Be specific, I own/support unix, dreamweaver, frontpage webeasy, yahoo website builders for supporting where my clients and just got serifs program (not installed yet) I have a new client and want to see if fusion would be good I have about 1 week to decide and can't even show him fusion 11 in action.

    He wants to build a mostly static website for a lumber industry, fusion is okay for that but I really don't want to re-start the process and make my clients miserable in the long run when failure occur, and support does not exist.

    Please be honest, one day soon I am really hoping that they break out as the #1 leader in website building software, I had nearly a decade of wonderful use and support in the 80-90s' and love many user features that are unbeatable, but should I dish out another $75 YET in hopes that my ms visual c and a dozen other issues go away or is the company still in its shithole mode?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Trimdoner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duftopia View Post
    Be specific, I own/support unix, dreamweaver, frontpage webeasy, yahoo website builders for supporting where my clients and just got serifs program (not installed yet) I have a new client and want to see if fusion would be good I have about 1 week to decide and can't even show him fusion 11 in action.
    I also love NOF and its usability - I still use 11 for many sites- but for all its 'new versions' (basic updates of its older versions) it still seems pretty much dead in the water
    Any new projects I currently start in either Wordpress (for its mobile support), or Serif Webplus, for its ease of use.

    If Netobjects even attempted to stay up to date, I would never have strayed. I'm only thankful that web browsers continue to support older web design methods, meaning my older NOF sites still display as they should - NOF was brilliant at what it did, but is sadly falling way behind current technology.

  3. #3

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    This thread lost my reply, very typical for fusion.

    I just got serif yesterday Webplus x5, will install it and start my clients site using that or a4deskpro, if its anyeher as good as fusion MX was I will go through the trouble of converting my web site to it and finally leaving the fusion world... What a shame, I so hoped they would fix the bleeding arterys instead of adding shiney stuff and bandaging small scratches fusion 13 has 2 patches already... Not a good reflection of change.

  4. #4
    Senior Member RayC's Avatar
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    Funny how an agenda can taint your interpretation of events. I see regular patches as an indication of a commitment to fix problems that crop up. There was a time when updates would be a year or more apart and people would wonder if NO had gone out of business.

    HTML5 and CSS3 are the new emerging standards that NOF13 now supports. Yes, not much else has changed. If you ask 10 users what should be changed, you'll get 10 completely different (and often mutually exclusive) answers.

    I'm sure Webplus is a fine program. Happy website building.
    Ray Cambpell
    Sounds In Sync
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    Senior Member franko's Avatar
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    Funny how an agenda can taint your interpretation of events
    I had nearly a decade of wonderful use and support in the 80-90s'
    Yes indeed. FYI, the web didn't exist in the '80s and NoF certainly didn't. Tim Berners-Lee wrote the protocols for html and http while at CERN in Switzerland and published them in 1990. They started being used in scientific and academic circles the following year, but it was a couple more years before the wider internet community started to use it. At that time the only browsers were text based - Lynx being the most common but there were others such as Grail (written in Python). Marc Andreeson wrote the first graphical browser, Mosaic, in '94-ish while at NCSA and this became the basis for Netscape. Netobjects came out about 1995 as a beta and v1 followed in, from memory, 1996. It certainly wasn't around in the 80's.

  6. #6

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    I do get my dates out of wack Most definitely. But I "back in the time", very few apps were available to do the more advanced things I wanted, so I was always the first to into them.

    I was on the PCPursuit (not www internet), auctionbay, rss feeds (forgot what they were called back then) etc...

    I am almost certain that I was running fusion before 95, maybe 93 cause I was also on auctionbay, yahoo auctions, baragainandhaggle etc.. and wanted all my adds to be online.

    In Any case I had many many good years with fusion, to end this way is discouraging to say the least, maybe I will change my mind again.

    Thanks for the History!, but I discovered as of late FACTS are not necessarily facts WMD in iraw, Rx-7's 19MPG (wrong try 28mpg), Steve jobs MADE apple (where wozniak?), etc...

    OH don't take offense (Australians are the most honest people I can trust they won't rip me off on eBay) 2011 WRONG!, Still I love you guys wanted to immigrate 14 years ago!

    Michael (duf)

    PS: Any comments on fusion 13, do they have there MOJO Back?

  7. #7
    Senior Member franko's Avatar
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    Mate, no offence taken. And at 65 I also get my dates out of whack sometimes.

    Not when it comes to internet history, though; I was there from the beginning (ok, that's not true; ARPANet started in '65 but I was making web sites (I won't say designing because there wasn't anything to design with back then - tables came out with Netscape 1.1 which was the first time we had an ability to place objects side by side) from about '95 and accessing the web (via server based Lynx) a year or so earlier. Before that, Gopher, Usenet & IRC. And I worked on Apple eWorld before the web took off and all the big IT names were trying to drive people onto proprietory networks (IBM Net, Compuserve, AOL, eWorld - they all had no connection to the internet at first).

    I was a beta tester for NetObjects as a member of the now long defunct Web Consultants Association (the mailing list is still going, though, and I'm still in touch with many of the original members) and that was definitey 95/96; not before.

    To answer your question, though, let me put it this way. Before they surprised me and brought out 2013, I was investigating the alternatives. As most of my work now is pro-bono for the Kingdom, I can't afford to spend a lot of time hand-coding as I'm no longer on a billable hourly rate. I was about to make the jump to something else (WYSIWYG Web Builder) when out came 2013 with its html 5 and css3 output (yes, and a bunch of bugs) and made me stay with NO. I've converted a bunch of sites to NO without any real problems (some irritations, certainly, but nothing that would make me move sites to another platform).

    It's let down by not having a responsive output method but then again, neither does anything else (not really, you have to do some hand coding with everything and for that I use other programs in which I can code a page and then clone it and change the content - BlueGriffon and NetBeans IDE are my favourites. But like I said, I can't generally afford the time to hand code sites that are going to be anything more than a handful of pages.

    For churches I'm mainly recommending WordPress these days and use Artisteer and Templateer for these. Reasons - they need to have a bunch of people update content; they want something that's easy to manage and they don't have to understand too much and it's easy for me to create a theme for them because the templates are all built on the WordPress functionality. Occasionally I'm asked to do a unique design for a client and for that I use Netobjects because I haven't found anything that's quite as good at it.

    Like Ray I see the rapid updates as a benefit, a sign that the team is staying on top of the bugs and squashing them PDQ. Was 2013 released too early and without sufficient testing? Yes. But that has to be a marketing decision; wait too long to squash all the bugs and somebody gets the jump on you and takes your market share; release too early and you lose customer satisfaction. I think NO got it pretty right but frankly, that's something that only history will tell.

    In summary, for me and my needs, NoF 2013 plus WordPress/templateer plus the manual coding environments I mentioned earlier give me pretty much all I need for web development. There is no one-size-fits-all in any kind of software and there never will be. I take the best available and stick with it unless and until they really lose the plot. And while NoF did under WSP ownership, IMHO they have found it again.

  8. #8

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    Ah... Usenet was it. I also dearly miss netscape word perfect, XYWrite do you remember that multi-tasking word intelligent processor ran under dos, win 3 to XP, and unix. Programs use to function for the task they performed and do them well!

    Yes I built an S100, got an apple II (with a z80 card 8080), loved my Amiga 1000 (still runs), and I still could have sworn fusion was there before 95, oh well.

    Worlds largest BBS's, "Unusual Expectations" - ME.

    I find myself now with software that would have been called crippleware in my time! The community of users would run the company that made it out of business!. 5 minutes to load a fusion page on a core i7 920 3GHZ!, makes me want to go back to full page ansi - every screen in "pcboard" was ansi and U had over 35 users on my systems "dial in" at one time running 8 hz cpu. Point - IT GOT THE JOB DONE

    html 5 and css3 are just chipmunk words, shiney new things to play with that probably have errors while the core programs runs like a pig it hasn't worked right in years, its downright disappointing again does fusion 13 run faster, does it exploits 64 bit, can it be loaded entirely in memory or does its still have to thash the system drive, will an ssd be better than a ramdisk, can it deal with over 100 pages without catastrophic crashes, and can it manage a simple FTPs, does the commerce button work (NEVR worked for me ever).

    Stuff like that and moreso when it fails will there be support to guide me to a fix in under 300 days!

  9. #9
    Senior Member franko's Avatar
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    We're getting way of topic, but since it's your thread if you don't mind, I don't.

    It's the nature of the beast. NoF (which isn't yet ported to 64-bit) runs on the most bloated, unstabled operating system there's ever been, and it's only getting worse. Same goes for all windows programs. At least Mac OS is built on a stable platform - Free BSD - but they're rapidly doing the same thing. Back in the time we're talking about OS's were just that - they operated the computer. Now they're expected to be virtually an entire computing environment so that people who can't be bothered to learn can take them out of the box, switch them on and do everything from writing documents to editing videos without having to invest in other applications. Sure other applications are better than all the bundled stuff, but you can do pretty much everything a punter would want to do with an out of the box mac or windows computer.

    Everything people say here about NoF I find to be equally true of most other software. I was working with Photoshop CS5.1 yesterday and it froze 3 times. Each time I had to reboot because I couldn't kill the process and Photoshop wouldn't start again while a process was running. Pain in the you know what! If that happened to someone with NoF they'd have been on here screaming; I just accept it as part of working in the windows environment.

    It's not going to get any better. We're not going to go back to the days of simple, stable OSs doing that and nothing else while programs run in their own spaces without having to mult-thread and multi-task on an array of processor cores. Well, except on the web where we still have Unix. (I still run my sites on a Sun Sparc running Solaris. My sites have never been offline in more than a decade except when a massive DDOS took out the data centre way back in about 2001 but my host has put in massive redundancy now and it simply couldn't happen again.

    In short, I don't think things are going to change for the better. Personal computing is going to get more and more complicated and running programs stably on an unstable OS is going to continue being problematical.

  10. #10

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    No I don't mind but yes I am hoping I hear more about fusion 13 from some FANS (err...survivors) But you are right.

    Do you think someone would get the code to fusion (in America) and re-write it, or re-compile it to run under UNIX and/or just run proper. I would be more than happy to help.

    Michael

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