I think this is really over

[Kitty]

Hi all,

I have very few client sites left that were built in NOF. If I did, they're pretty old and I took them down (from portfolio). I probably mentioned this before, esp when discussing responsiveness, but all I use now is Wordpress. I think the final straw was when I opened an older site in NOF v.15 yesterday (had already been edited in v.15 before) and it totally hung up... responding, not responding, responding... and that kept on for as long as I would leave it. There was not one darn thing I could do - tricks, workarounds, ANYthing (and I know a lot of them by now) -I could not work with it.

Soooo, now I am in the process of redoing this client's entire site, into WP of course, at no charge. I've gone back and forth about that, charge? no charge? and my gut feeling is to not charge. It's not her fault my software died. Not mine either (always upgraded). She may have converted to WP anyway down the line, but on her timeline. One usually plans for changes that will cost $$. She wasn't thinking about that at all....

ANYway, it's over. We have had a lovely relationship for 19 years (NOF + Kitty), but I have found someone else. Sorry. I will always love you, I just can't stay with you any longer.

C'est la vie, au revoir.
Until next time,
~Kitty

[Since_v4]

Hello Kitty,

As you wish, feel free to do what you think it's best.

I still believe you should charge your customers a bit for transitioning to WP, but again, you are mature and vaccinated, so you will do as you see fit.

I shall NOT leave NOF. There are several hundreds web sites which mention my work (e-books and innovations) and they all are 'responsive', so I do not really care if my two main websites are still irresponsive.

I look forward to see what NOF 2016 (or 2017 ? ) will bring.

Ceao! ...

[Thomas Frei-Herrmann]

folks - it is not impossible to make websites responsive with the existing NOF2015 software - it is just some more work. Here an example of my testings:

http://www.nof-tutorials.com/Respons...martmenus.html

... it's also possible to include a CMS in NOF and it's still responsive - there is practically no limit what to do with NOF - 'WordPress' is more limited (for my opinion).

http://www.nof-tutorials.com/Respons...SS/CMS/cms.php




... hopefully Fusion will be ready soon on some solution.

[gotFusion]

WP is bloated hack ware. I have more customers whose WP sites have been compromised as they are all "open to the public". My list of "never do and I do not allow" is getting into page after page of content

Anyone who chooses to use WP needs to google and read all they can about "hardening wordpress sites" if they want to keep their content up and online more than a week at a time and not become an open spam relay.

Unfortunately there is no other alternative for those who do not know, nor wish to know, anything about the design and operation of web sites.

@Kitty.... If you need info and help with WP get with me off group as I do not wish to turn the NetO forum into a WP help site.

[barbara0701]

WP is bloated hack ware. I have more customers whose WP sites have been compromised as they are all "open to the public"

You can close them to the public by disallowing registration and comments. However, even then it's just spam. I never experienced successful hacker attacks with WP. I place every website in a different server account in order to avoid infection but really, cross fingers, it never happened.

Also install as few extensions as possible.

[gotFusion]

You can close them to the public by disallowing registration and comments. However, even then it's just spam. I never experienced successful hacker attacks with WP. I place every website in a different server account in order to avoid infection but really, cross fingers, it never happened.

Also install as few extensions as possible.

You cannot delete the admin and that is where most breaches happen.

WP is over written, bloated code that runs at a snail's pace.

I only allow WP on a single server to minimize collateral damage when a user decides to have an easily remembered username/password. I force all WP installs to have a minimum 20 character username and password and both must contain UPPER/lower case letters, numerals, and special characters and have at least 2 of each required option. Even with this highest level of security I still have customers trying to make log-ins something they can remember.

RULE OF THUMB: If you can remember your username/password it is NOT secure.

Any piece of software that is easy for the customer has to contain miles and miles of code (NetO is a prime example of massive, complex, software that is simple to use and performs a very simple task yet takes up a massive portion of hard disk space on a computer).

Don't get me wrong... I like both Fusion and WordPress... Unfortunately both take a very intelligent and savvy user to make more than just a mess of things.

I have a "German" question for you that is not NetO related and will contact you directly...

[barbara0701]

I only allow WP on a single server to minimize collateral damage when a user decides to have an easily remembered username/password. I force all WP installs to have a minimum 20 character username and password and both must contain UPPER/lower case letters, numerals, and special characters and have at least 2 of each required option. Even with this highest level of security I still have customers trying to make log-ins something they can remember.

Good ideas, thanks

I have a "German" question for you that is not NetO related and will contact you directly...

Anytime you like!

[gotFusion]

WP (as other CMS) is bloated anyway as long as you do not have customers that want to edit all contents

I use 2 different Windows-Applications that create responsive Websites, one is a kind of sophisticated generator, the second a webdesign software like NOF but both fully supporting mobile devices. Using CMS for any purpose is like recommending a jeep for any purpose, you can of course do anything with it but it makes no real sense and is not best option. Who is interested what I use can PM me otherwise I get censored again

CMS if well written can be lean mean and screaming fast

This site is made up of 1 static and 5 outward facing dynamic pages which display several hundred pages of content on them.

http://www.bronze-gallery.com/

Now the admin is more than 35 pages to control the content all the way from dynamic carousel image rotations (created on the fly based on the visitor's selection) to simple sorted DB dumps, to formatted display pages. Even the menu structure is created on the fly from the database and the look/feel of the menu can be changed via the admin.

Now it does take a little thought and planning but once created it a simple process to change the look feel of everything as so few pages are involved. Unfortunatly sites of this type are customer specific, not one size fits all like WP. If you are building one site for one customer for one set of content, the code involved is amazingly small as it is target specific.

[Kitty]

Wow you guys... didn't realize everything that you're talking about with WP. You know that folks always said the same thing about NetObjects, a lot of bloat. Of course I always defended it because I loved it!

Truthfully, I believe that my goals in this business have changed. I'm actually decreasing the amount of work I'm doing. I like WP now that I know a little more of what I'm doing. I realize that it was always my choice as far as learning different things, but I gotta tell ya, I have learned more CSS in general out of necessity customizing WP.

Whatever your thoughts & opinions are regarding WP & NetObjects - it's all good. Whatever works for you. I'm happy. I have one foot out of the business, so it's not as extremely important to me as it once was. You're all pretty darn smart & skilled - seriously. At least as far as I've always read in here.
It's been fun.
And you know what? I'm sure I'll be checking here for any new versions/updates.
Happy Summer! And thanks a lot for your feedback.

~Kitty

[Since_v4]

Word Press?

An old Romanian proverb:

'Never go with a big bag to the tree full with fruits everybody talks about', meaning never go where everybody else is going ...