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Thread: Responsive Websites

  1. #1
    Senior Member gprit's Avatar
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    Default Responsive Websites

    I know there has beeen much discussion on this.....I have been with NOF since v7...but I am increasingly embarrassed when clients ask "Is it responsive..."? I really REALLY do not want to go elsewhere.....and of most alternatives I have looked at I do not like...either monthly payments (do not want...happy to pay a purchase price...) or simply too complicated....such as coffecup....
    Have done a bit of research and looking at two......http://www.ucraft.com and http://www.websitex5.com

    I have to sy that both of these are streets ahead of NOF 2015.....Please...PLEASE...Steve...tell us that SOMETHING is on the way that will compete with these, otherwise your users will leave in droves.....

  2. #2
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    It would be very nice to know if a responsive NOF is in the works or on the horizon. I agree with grpit: please, Steve, et al, let us know if anything is brewing on the responsive front. I recently had to convert one site to WIX because it needed to be responsive (a real estate broker). I speak for many: we want to stay with NOF; please give us a little clue if responsiveness is coming....

    Thanks,
    Tom

  3. #3
    Senior Member franko's Avatar
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    I'm with you, Rick. I do subscribe to Adobe on the cloud because I have no other choice. Photoshop is an essential for me. But other than that, I've moved away from other companies that are going down that route. But then, I've always used open source software as much as possible.

    Although I have no inside knowledge, I am 99.99% sure that Netobjects is working hard to make Fusion responsive. It's just not as easy to do as people seem to think while retaining the drag and drop and total site management functionality that makes Fusion what it is.

    I also believe (and again, have no knowledge whatsoever except for 20 years experience with Fusion) that we will see a new release early in 2017.

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    Thumbs up DITTO on needing responsive site creation capabilities ASAP !

    As an original pre-version 1.0 beta tester in 1995/96 (thank you Samir Arora) and having created over 400 sites since then, all with NetObjects I am finally feeling TOTALLY left behind. Of the 30+ NetObjects created sites that I still manage there isn't one that feels even remotely up to date. Even knowing every tweak possible to at least simulate the look and feel of a responsive site, none that I've modified really are so I had been holding my breath hoping that my clients don't catch on before NetObjects realizes that there is no longer any way around it - we truly need a new NetObjects with complete responsive capabilities or it's RIP NetObjects within very short order. I'm sure I speak for most of us that those who have been with NOF so long that we can't so easily transition into Wordpress and numerous other platforms but we have little choice than to jump ship before we all drown in the non-responsive reality that is any version of NetObjects.

    Steve, thanks for committing to some great updates since you took over but now its time to step up big time and bring us up to speed so we can meet our clients very reasonable expectations.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Thomas Frei-Herrmann's Avatar
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    ... well - I can't really hear it anymore - of course you can do responsive web design with NOF 2015, but you have to invest some "thinking"

    Here you find about 20 examples from me:

    http://www.nof-tutorials.com/Respons...te-Layout-CSS/

    ... and yes - I am also waiting for an "automatically" solution from Fusion


    ... it's not really that much of a trick
    Tommy

    Administrator at the German NOF-Forum

    NOF-Tutorials.com | German NOF-Forum | Overview of my tutorials | Facebook

  6. #6
    Senior Member Beach Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franko View Post

    I also believe (and again, have no knowledge whatsoever except for 20 years experience with Fusion) that we will see a new release early in 2017.
    Wow, truly amazing. NOF's best acheivement as of late is the hanger-ons are now using "2017". Click on the Navbar button titled "Forum" then search on "responsive" if you would like to see just how long this topic has been nattered on.

    Thread: Responsive design
    Started by Trimdoner, 05-01-2014 05:54 AM

    Quote Originally Posted by Trimdoner View Post

    Anyone with inside knowledge to indicate NOF is working on anything similar?
    Quote Originally Posted by franko View Post
    No inside knowledge but I'm sure they are.
    So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again.
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

    Every year is getting shorter; never seem to find the time.
    Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
    Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
    The time is gone, the song is over,
    Thought I'd something more to say.

    - Roger Waters
    Last edited by Beach Ape; 12-11-2016 at 06:09 PM.

  7. #7

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    This became 'an issue' for me towards the end of '15 as I had both compliance (financial services), changing regulatory requirements, and dropping visitor numbers issues. There were many 'assurances' (like the above) from supportive members on here but nothing transpired. I was fairly incensed at the time that NOF couldn't provide the courtesy of response(s) or indications on the issues - from a pure management/marketing perspective this is a firm that has got it horribly wrong (unless there business plan is to simply drag out the revenue stream from a struggling product as long as possible.

    This is over a year ago ! - and as Mr Ape demonstrates it was not a new subject then.

    I still felt some loyalty to the product/company - it enabled me (originally a 10 user) to take a huge 'step up' in producing my own websites for a business which has done us very well (to a great extent as a result of those websites), but looking back if it wasn't for the support of third party organisations like Mike (Turtle) at 'gotfusion', rather than any form of coherent NOF support from their own resources. These 'forecasts', misguided loyalty and a reluctance to enter a new learning curve led me to delay any move for some more months - which I greatly regret.

    I have since moved elsewhere for our website software, gone through the learning pain and in January 2017 the first of our new responsive websites will go live (followed by the other 5 at the rate of one a month) - we could have been 'up and running' a couple of months ago but the compliance process for us is slow and we are accommodating a corporate change of status at the same time. The new software is readily available on a 'one off' licence basis (see my following comments) basis, receives regular updates (primarily improvements rather than fixes), receives excellent support by a forum manned by the provider as well as experienced members - I have yet to have a problem/question not resolved with 12 hours - @ a similar cost to Fusion.

    I spent a couple of evenings last week updating one of our old sites (built and maintained on 10) to current compliance requirements, which is last use I expect to make of NOF products - and this reminded me of the chasm in capability.

    I have no problem with subscription models - indeed (based on a 6 person/terminal office) I am more than happy with the Office 365 and Adobe Pro installations we use on a subscription basis - If the objection is price, then I suggest you compare the product/service requirements you have with the value to your business. If you run your local cub pack's website fine, but if you are a website designer (even on a part time and basic level) or using it to support your business (as we are) £59 'for life' is insufficient to receive the necessary ongoing support. My biggest concern about our new supplier is that he/they charges a similar rate (albeit his prodigious support and development rate enables an annual-ish upgrade option, but insufficient in my opinion) and I am uncomfortable about their ongoing sustainability.

    As Mr Ape demonstrates above, there has been ample time (3 yrs) for NOF to react - they have failed to do so, or to demonstrate any professional management of the ongoing situation. Many business relying on them have been damaged in the meantime - you should take steps to ensure that your business is not one of them.
    Last edited by Senior Paper Monitor; 12-12-2016 at 03:04 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member franko's Avatar
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    It is, of course, for everyone to decide what the contents of their tool box is. As I've stated on many occasions, I have quite a number of tools in my toolbox and I use the appropriate one for the task at hand. I do find it rather annoying that after so many years of being able to work on a site as a whole where each page is automatically integrated with every other and one change flows through as many pages in the site as exist in a particular MasterBorder, all the tools I now have to work with force me to work in a 'one-page-at-a-time' workflow, rather like being back in the early nineties. The only reason for this is the insistent requirement for responsive output (insistence mainly coming from clients and not usually from the business case for the particular site).

    Again, as I've said on many occasions, rewriting an application's code base to automate responsive output while maintaining the total site management and control that Fusion gives is more than a trivial programming task. It is mammoth and daunting and requires substantial programming resources, resources that few software companies would have - Adobe, Corel, Apple and Microsloth, of course (although the Lord alone knows what we'd end up with in the latter case) and a very few more.

    The demand for responsive output caught Netobjects on the hop, I believe, shortly after investing to buy the company from Website Pros. I don't think at the time they realised the paradigm shift that was about to occur (rather like what happened to 3Com when networking interface cards suddenly disappeared overnight in favour of on-board silicon. 3Com never recovered).

    Only time will tell whether or not the paradigm shift has been too great for them. I, as the inestimable Mr Ape points out, live in hope. But then, I've always been an optimist.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Since_v4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gprit View Post
    I know there has beeen much discussion on this.....I have been with NOF since v7...but I am increasingly embarrassed when clients ask "Is it responsive..."? I really REALLY do not want to go elsewhere.....and of most alternatives I have looked at I do not like...either monthly payments (do not want...happy to pay a purchase price...) or simply too complicated....such as coffecup....
    Have done a bit of research and looking at two......http://www.ucraft.com and http://www.websitex5.com

    I have to sy that both of these are streets ahead of NOF 2015.....Please...PLEASE...Steve...tell us that SOMETHING is on the way that will compete with these, otherwise your users will leave in droves.....
    Hi gprit,

    This topic made many, many comments in this forum ... and even led to the banning of Bluesman (longtime NOF user ...) plus the deletion of all his posts

    We can all only hope that NOF owner and manager are doing their best to accommodate responsiveness in the upcoming version.

    The optimist in me likes to believe the new NOF version will be absolutely smashing, far ahead of all the responsive imitators software makers ... NOF managers, please make the competition bite the dust, a lot of dust, not just a bit ...

    I realize that many NOFists lose their patience, but rest assured, not me.
    I am calm, veeeeery calm.

    Season Greetings!
    John - I am born to tease, not to please.
    For NOF beginners: read everything here and practice on mock web sites first.
    Before asking a question, search to see if it has not been asked and answered already.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Since_v4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rick6811 View Post
    ... If I had to work with people wanting websites I would not last a week trying to please the general public with web sites I design.
    Hi Rick,

    You can never please ALL the public.

    Tell them you can make responsive websites, take deposits from them and pass the work onto other webmasters who make a (bitter) living pleasing people ...

    (Pssst! do not tell anyone, ... of course you keep a cut for yourself)
    John - I am born to tease, not to please.
    For NOF beginners: read everything here and practice on mock web sites first.
    Before asking a question, search to see if it has not been asked and answered already.

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