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Thread: Responsive Websites

  1. #31
    Senior Member franko's Avatar
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    I'm with you, John. All The Way. In fact, when I'm searching for information and don't want to be sidetracked, I still use Lynx because the info I want is in words and Lynx only displays text.

    Back in the mid '90s, which was when I too started (I designed Australia's first ecommerce web site in 1996 for Time Life Corporation) anyone who could code a web site was considered a guru and treated with respect. Today any schmuck can build a web site (I recently had a client buy some web design software and design his own site because he didn't like me having control over it because I knew what I was doing and he didn't); first thing he did ws upload a 16MB logo and wondered why his site was so much slower to load than mine had been. As a result, web developers are no longer shown any respect. It's the same with photography. When I opened my first studio in 1982, pretty much all advertising was shot on 10" x 8" view cameras. My day rate in 1982 was $1100. Today anyone with a digital camera and a laptop calls themselves a photographer and I've heard of commercial jobs on which I quoted $600 being done for $50 by somebody who didn't have a clue what they were doing.

    Times have changed and technology has destroyed most of the crafts that actually required skill, vision, creativity and talent; those plus many years experience before you could make a good living out of them. But today's paradigm will shift in time, also. What will not change in business is service, ethics and advice. Get those right and you will always have clients, no matter the changes in technology.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Since_v4's Avatar
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    @ franko

    Ha, ha, ha ...
    16MB logo...

    I hope you did not tell the guy the real reason why his page loads slowly, did you ... ;-)

    As for responsive websites, the topic of this thread, what more can I say other than I wait and see ...

    I typing this post on my smartphone in bed ...
    John - I am born to tease, not to please.
    For NOF beginners: read everything here and practice on mock web sites first.
    Before asking a question, search to see if it has not been asked and answered already.

  3. #33
    Senior Member franko's Avatar
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    My conclusion from everything I've tested is that a site is either functional and good looking on a desktop or or a mobile device. Higher res tablets such as Retina iPads can usually work well with desktop versions. I personally think the best solution from an end user's perspective is to have two sites designed for appropriate devices rather than trying to squeeze one site that may be 4 columns for a desktop down into 1 column on a smartphone. Just doesn't work and is extremely frustrating for the users.

    On another thread we were discussing Netobjects' web site on a smartphone. I visited it on an iPhone and found it almost impossible to use, even though (especially because) it was now a series of sections one on top of the other. OTOH a site designed for a smartphone (mobile first, eg Foundation framework) looks idiotic when scaled up to, for example, a 5k iMac.

    Google may be trying to force everybody to build responsive sites, but IMHO this is to the detriment of both the site owner and the site user and for that reason I believe it is an ephemeral aberration. Separate specifically designed sites give the best user experience and so will win out despite Google's attempt to force us into a one-size-fits-all approach.
    Last edited by franko; 01-18-2017 at 10:47 PM.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Since_v4's Avatar
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    Ha, ha, the website owner will have to pay his webmaster for desktop version AND mobile version ..

    Google is NOT the only search engine. If Google is forcing website owners on this or that, imagine what the other 20 major search engines will do in a few years from now ... Ha ha, ha ..

    Imagine all websites will have 20 versions each to satisfy the requirements of the 20 major search engines.
    Guys, a lot of work is coming your way! Why have 40 customers, each with his website, when you can end up with 2 customers, each with 20 versions of the same website?

    How about the very same website with 20 different domain names?

    Aaaahh, the past was once the future! ... He he, the future will be the past one day ...
    John - I am born to tease, not to please.
    For NOF beginners: read everything here and practice on mock web sites first.
    Before asking a question, search to see if it has not been asked and answered already.

  5. #35
    Senior Member gprit's Avatar
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    I agree with Franko. I too have tried 'responsive' sites and 'one size' does NOT fit all - and not all desktop information is needed on a mobile version (ok, I know some sites can exclude from mobile version).
    As long as the site isn't huge it is better to have two versions - smartphone and desktop. The desktop version will look perfectly fine on an iPad - if used landscape. I went through this with the client and they agreed with that - no need to have a separate site for iPads.
    I also didn't have a completely separate site for the smartphone version, just a test for mobile and then point to the 'second' homepage within the same site, prefixed m.
    The main downside is that any changes have to be made twice.
    I explain to clients and let them choose whether they want to pay extra for a smartphone version - most are in businesses that don't really need a specific mobile version.
    Last edited by gprit; 01-19-2017 at 08:54 AM.

  6. #36

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    My tenpenneth for what its worth (which very much reflects what Franko and gprit say) ...

    I moved away from NoF about a year ago, driven by falling visitor numbers and the need for responsive.

    We have one main site, a handful of specialist market sector sites (and what I call a 'repository site' on which i build any shared functions, like our legal statements,data collections forms to be linked to from emails, affiliate links etc - which are often common between our real sites). We are by nature of the business - information rather than image/brand based - and I think the answer to the best structure lies with the nature of your own business.

    I initially went the 'standard' full size, tablet & smart phone structure with a combination of breakpoint and flexible grid functionality. It worked (and is very impressive when you drag the size of your viewing window and it reacts to this - but which users actually ever do this ?) but I have never been totally happy with the results, specifically at the smallest size. To be honest at that selected size you can 'throw all the rest of the content' and build new stuff, but on the software I am using the full range of j query tools are not available (on a click the button basis') in that format - you need to utilise a dedicated mobile page builder function for these.

    The latter certainly creates a better mobile page in my opinion - and much quicker to do.

    I think in many cases (certainly ours) the smart phone version needs a totally different approach in both style and content, rather than just a 'mini version'.

    As result of this I have settled for:

    1) building a total stand alone dot mobi site (same url name as our main site) - this means, amongst other things, I can SEO that site individually.

    2) our main site now offers a 'my that's a small screen' welcome, the smart phone version of the page, and invites them to try turning it to landscape or clicking through to the dot mobi version (I am still reviewing whether this is a better option rather than automatically switching, which would be easy to implement).

    3) our specialist sites will either use a same page mobile version, an auto divert or the my that's a small screen' welcome described above - depending upon the nature and comment of the individual sites.


    If I was running a restaurant I would be looking for 'image' and 'feel' on my website rather than mass information - a single source/style solution is probably the best - for ourselves (financial services, strict controls on content and necessary warnings/statements displayed and heavy information content) I am becoming of the opinion that a specialist mobi solution is best at the smallest size (only using the true responsive functionality within the tablet - full screen range)
    Last edited by Senior Paper Monitor; 01-21-2017 at 08:55 AM.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Since_v4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senior Paper Monitor View Post
    ....
    If I was running a restaurant I would be looking for 'image' and 'feel' on my website rather than mass information - a single source/style solution is probably the best - for ourselves (financial services, strict controls on content and necessary warnings/statements displayed and heavy information content) I am becoming of the opinion that a specialist mobi solution is best at the smallest size (only using the true responsive functionality tablet - full screen range)

    Hi Senior,

    This is what have been saying all the time: image is one thing, mostly for the masses, content is for the above-average individual.
    I am in the financial markets and my websites have no fancy styles.

    I never used special logos, special graphics, special fonts and I have no appetite for responsive or mobile trends. I only used the standard designs every NOF version comes with, BUT.... my content is unique, innovative and many people get good results by following the rules from my writings and websites.

    I laugh at restaurant website owners who want to project a certain image and end up with a website which is nicer than the restaurant (hotel, guesthouse, home, etc.) itself ...
    This cannot be said about content which, if it is nicer than reality, is fraud, a road that does not go far.

    Thank you for your comment, and have a nice weekend!
    John - I am born to tease, not to please.
    For NOF beginners: read everything here and practice on mock web sites first.
    Before asking a question, search to see if it has not been asked and answered already.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Since_v4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gprit View Post
    ........ I went through this with the client and they agreed with that - no need to have a separate site for iPads.
    I also didn't have a completely separate site for the smartphone version, just a test for mobile and then point to the 'second' homepage within the same site, prefixed m.
    The main downside is that any changes have to be made twice.
    I explain to clients and let them choose whether they want to pay extra for a smartphone version - most are in businesses that don't really need a specific mobile version.

    Hi,

    I am glad to hear you manage NOF to an artistic level where you can make a living using it.
    Way to go!
    John - I am born to tease, not to please.
    For NOF beginners: read everything here and practice on mock web sites first.
    Before asking a question, search to see if it has not been asked and answered already.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Since_v4's Avatar
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    By judging from the many versions NOF released so far and also from the many past questions, suggestions and even complaints, I can predict the future:

    One day, on the NOF front webpage some of us will read a message like this:

    The responsive version you've been waiting for is here.
    And there is more: ..... (this) and ...... (that).
    We beat competition again and reinstitute topmost value to WYSIWYG website design software.


    The news will spread like wild fire, all NOF users will get to know, and some of us will buy the new version.

    Then again, many will be happy, some others will begin asking (or answering) questions and some folks will throw their complaints to us.
    One day, out of the blue, something such as "amazing" novelty in website design will happen somewhere in cyberspace and many NOFers will begin wondering when a new version at that time is going to be released to include that novelty.

    The cycle will close when some people are going to threaten us with leaving NOF for some other software which offers the feature(s) which the latest NOF version is late in adding, forgetting that other software packages are passing comets on the dark, deep sky where NOF keeps shining for many, many years ...

    Next, after a new long waiting that will exasperate some NOFists, NOF management will come up with another new version ...

    I believe I covered the topic.
    Did I forget something?
    John - I am born to tease, not to please.
    For NOF beginners: read everything here and practice on mock web sites first.
    Before asking a question, search to see if it has not been asked and answered already.

  10. #40

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    OK...

    So that's it...??

    I got to page 6 and thought for sure good news would be flying off the page...

    UNbeLIEVable FiREWOrKS...!! AND MORE..!!##..!!!

    Oh Well...

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