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Thread: OT: what do I say?

  1. #1
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default OT: what do I say?

    Hi guys,
    just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on Google.
    The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to hardly get
    on google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it for him to
    see what was wrong and way his site is not in Google. Here is what his
    friend said: "He claims the problem is in the addressing and I will not
    show up until this is corrected. He says there are some errors that
    prevent it from happening. Could you check this out and fix it for me?".
    I do not think the guy knows what he is talking about, as it is included
    in Google, just pretty low, but what is to expect for a 2 month old site?
    Here is what my client wants: "If this is fact you owe me a discount
    this lack of exposure may be costing us sales." I am going to email him
    and say 'Whatever', but thought I would get your thoughts first.
    I have submitted XML sitemaps, submitted to Google, MSN, and some others.
    Micah

    http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    tutorials on NOF

  2. #2
    LBA
    Guest

    Default Re: OT: what do I say?

    I just searched for "bees" and there are 15 million results. He expects
    you to be on top of that list? That was your mistake for not telling
    him, from the get-go, that you can't guarantee him a top search rank...
    you can only promise to build his site correctly, using accepted
    practices, assuring him that his site will have a fair shot. After
    that, it's all about content... and he's in charge of that. But it also
    depends on what people search for. You can point out to him that if you
    search for "cedar glen bees"........ he's NUMBER ONE!

    Laurence


    Micah Klesick wrote:
    > Hi guys,
    > just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    > http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    > He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on
    > Google. The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to
    > hardly get on google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it
    > for him to see what was wrong and way his site is not in Google. Here
    > is what his friend said: "He claims the problem is in the addressing
    > and I will not show up until this is corrected. He says there are some
    > errors that prevent it from happening. Could you check this out and
    > fix it for me?".
    > I do not think the guy knows what he is talking about, as it is
    > included in Google, just pretty low, but what is to expect for a 2
    > month old site?
    > Here is what my client wants: "If this is fact you owe me a discount
    > this lack of exposure may be costing us sales." I am going to email
    > him and say 'Whatever', but thought I would get your thoughts first.
    > I have submitted XML sitemaps, submitted to Google, MSN, and some others.
    > Micah
    >
    > http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    > tutorials on NOF


  3. #3
    Garret Mott
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    Hi Micah -

    > just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    > http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    > He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on Google.
    > The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to hardly get on
    > google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it for him to...


    My first answer to your question was to say "Please find another web
    developer". Realizing that might not be the best option<g>, I did a little
    checking. Entering "Cedar Glen Bees" on Google returns them as #1. "Bees
    & Queens" they come in much lower.

    I believe you are correct in saying 2 months is not long enough. 6 maybe.
    Also - are they willing to pay for a submission service? That'll help.
    Would they like to research what the content is for every apiary supply
    place on the web? Find that & make sure your site has the same info, then
    wait months more. Would they like to write Google & ask them exactly what
    they need to do to be #1? I'm sure Google will be happy to explain
    precisely what to do.

    Forgive me if I sound sarcastic, but your client's expectations are absurd -
    unless you made guarantees as to rankings? Charged them $100,000 for the
    site?

    I have not run the site through W3C validation. Have you? Non-compliant
    code will hurt the ranking - if that's what the "friend" is saying, then
    he's correct. I'd offer to make sure it is compliant & then tell them that
    you are not the bee expert - they are & they need to tell you what people
    will be searching for.

    Even better, tell them to hire their friend & see how much better he does.
    If he's so great, how come they didn't hire him to begin with?

    I've been developing software for over 25 years & doing sites for 15 or
    more. Please feel free to pass what I've said along to your client & good
    luck!

    Regards,

    Garret Mott

    Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
    Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com



  4. #4
    Garret Mott
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    And....

    I searched for "Bees & Queens" & got:

    Results 41 - 50 of about 1,330,000 for bees & queens.



  5. #5
    Nancy O
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    And his Google Keyword Ad budget per month is how much ?????

    He and his friend have been smoking wacky weed in the bee fields if they
    think a brand new site can compete with the big boys in less than 1 year.

    This sounds like a ploy to get out of paying you for your time. Depending
    on the terms of your agreement (I hope you have one in writing), I would
    pull the site off the server if he doesn't cough up payment.

    --Nancy



    "Micah Klesick" <Micah@creationtidbits.com> wrote in message
    news:ev65r3$i571@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    > Hi guys,
    > just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    > http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    > He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on Google.
    > The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to hardly get
    > on google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it for him to
    > see what was wrong and way his site is not in Google. Here is what his
    > friend said: "He claims the problem is in the addressing and I will not
    > show up until this is corrected. He says there are some errors that
    > prevent it from happening. Could you check this out and fix it for me?".
    > I do not think the guy knows what he is talking about, as it is included
    > in Google, just pretty low, but what is to expect for a 2 month old site?
    > Here is what my client wants: "If this is fact you owe me a discount
    > this lack of exposure may be costing us sales." I am going to email him
    > and say 'Whatever', but thought I would get your thoughts first.
    > I have submitted XML sitemaps, submitted to Google, MSN, and some others.
    > Micah
    >
    > http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    > tutorials on NOF




  6. #6
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default Re: OT: what do I say?

    I told him that from the start, I have told him that a 1/2 dz times, he
    just thinks that I can just say be #1 and is!
    What I think makes him think that is my other beekeeping site,
    www.stanwood-camanobeekeepers.com, and it is #1 if you search stanwood
    bees, etc. I did the search engines using Google's recommendations.
    What more does he want?

    LBA wrote:
    > I just searched for "bees" and there are 15 million results. He expects
    > you to be on top of that list? That was your mistake for not telling
    > him, from the get-go, that you can't guarantee him a top search rank...
    > you can only promise to build his site correctly, using accepted
    > practices, assuring him that his site will have a fair shot. After
    > that, it's all about content... and he's in charge of that. But it also
    > depends on what people search for. You can point out to him that if you
    > search for "cedar glen bees"........ he's NUMBER ONE!
    >
    > Laurence
    >
    >
    > Micah Klesick wrote:
    >> Hi guys,
    >> just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    >> http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    >> He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on
    >> Google. The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to
    >> hardly get on google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it
    >> for him to see what was wrong and way his site is not in Google. Here
    >> is what his friend said: "He claims the problem is in the addressing
    >> and I will not show up until this is corrected. He says there are some
    >> errors that prevent it from happening. Could you check this out and
    >> fix it for me?".
    >> I do not think the guy knows what he is talking about, as it is
    >> included in Google, just pretty low, but what is to expect for a 2
    >> month old site?
    >> Here is what my client wants: "If this is fact you owe me a discount
    >> this lack of exposure may be costing us sales." I am going to email
    >> him and say 'Whatever', but thought I would get your thoughts first.
    >> I have submitted XML sitemaps, submitted to Google, MSN, and some others.
    >> Micah
    >>
    >> http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    >> tutorials on NOF


  7. #7
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    well, "> then tell them that
    >> you are not the bee expert - they are & they need to tell you what people
    >> will be searching for."

    I am actually better at beekeeping than he is. LOL I also made my local
    clubs website, www.stanwood-camanobeekeepers.com and it is REALLY high
    in the engines. That is kind of why I cannot drop him, I am his
    assistant with a research apiary for Washington State University.

    I should check to see exactly how high they are, you said that they were
    41-50 in "bees and queens"? Thats darn good for two month old site!
    I have run it through a while ago, I will have to check again.
    I was going to ask him why he did not get his other friend to do the
    site, and ask for some of his friend's websites.
    I made no guarantees to his placement, matter of fact, I told him I
    could do nothing but optimize the site and submit it and that was all.
    I only charged him $300 bucks, and I have not even charged him for
    several hours of editing!!
    Micah
    Garret Mott wrote:
    > Hi Micah -
    >
    >> just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    >> http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    >> He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on Google.
    >> The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to hardly get on
    >> google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it for him to...

    >
    > My first answer to your question was to say "Please find another web
    > developer". Realizing that might not be the best option<g>, I did a little
    > checking. Entering "Cedar Glen Bees" on Google returns them as #1. "Bees
    > & Queens" they come in much lower.
    >
    > I believe you are correct in saying 2 months is not long enough. 6 maybe.
    > Also - are they willing to pay for a submission service? That'll help.
    > Would they like to research what the content is for every apiary supply
    > place on the web? Find that & make sure your site has the same info, then
    > wait months more. Would they like to write Google & ask them exactly what
    > they need to do to be #1? I'm sure Google will be happy to explain
    > precisely what to do.
    >
    > Forgive me if I sound sarcastic, but your client's expectations are absurd -
    > unless you made guarantees as to rankings? Charged them $100,000 for the
    > site?
    >
    > I have not run the site through W3C validation. Have you? Non-compliant
    > code will hurt the ranking - if that's what the "friend" is saying, then
    > he's correct. I'd offer to make sure it is compliant & then tell them that
    > you are not the bee expert - they are & they need to tell you what people
    > will be searching for.
    >
    > Even better, tell them to hire their friend & see how much better he does.
    > If he's so great, how come they didn't hire him to begin with?
    >
    > I've been developing software for over 25 years & doing sites for 15 or
    > more. Please feel free to pass what I've said along to your client & good
    > luck!
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Garret Mott
    >
    > Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
    > Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
    >
    >


  8. #8
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    I have to agree with you. I do not have a agreement, but I do have
    everything I have ever talked to him about in a email folder and I can
    go back to about 3 emails that say that I am making no guarantees to
    search engine placement. He has paid me for the past work, I did it for
    $15 an hour since it was only my 6th website, Not sure what he would
    gain by getting any refund anyway, a couple bucks?

    Micah

    Nancy O wrote:
    > And his Google Keyword Ad budget per month is how much ?????
    >
    > He and his friend have been smoking wacky weed in the bee fields if they
    > think a brand new site can compete with the big boys in less than 1 year.
    >
    > This sounds like a ploy to get out of paying you for your time. Depending
    > on the terms of your agreement (I hope you have one in writing), I would
    > pull the site off the server if he doesn't cough up payment.
    >
    > --Nancy
    >
    >
    >
    > "Micah Klesick" <Micah@creationtidbits.com> wrote in message
    > news:ev65r3$i571@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    >> Hi guys,
    >> just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    >> http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    >> He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on Google.
    >> The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to hardly get
    >> on google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it for him to
    >> see what was wrong and way his site is not in Google. Here is what his
    >> friend said: "He claims the problem is in the addressing and I will not
    >> show up until this is corrected. He says there are some errors that
    >> prevent it from happening. Could you check this out and fix it for me?".
    >> I do not think the guy knows what he is talking about, as it is included
    >> in Google, just pretty low, but what is to expect for a 2 month old site?
    >> Here is what my client wants: "If this is fact you owe me a discount
    >> this lack of exposure may be costing us sales." I am going to email him
    >> and say 'Whatever', but thought I would get your thoughts first.
    >> I have submitted XML sitemaps, submitted to Google, MSN, and some others.
    >> Micah
    >>
    >> http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    >> tutorials on NOF

    >
    >


  9. #9
    Garret Mott
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    He wants a discount on $300?????????

    Sheesh. Maybe - if you have to work with him outside of web development -
    you should just give him the whole 300 back & make him feel like the
    small-minded person he seems to be. Something along the lines of :"I've
    never had a client complain before. I don't want an unhappy one now.
    Here's your $300 & I'm sorry it didn't work out" In the long run, that
    might be the cheapest way out also!

    Garret Mott

    Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
    Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com



  10. #10
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    I know... He was the reason I bought NOF 10. If it was not for him I
    would not have got NOF 10, I would have never made any NOF 10
    tutorials... would have not......
    Maybe the reason he is my first client to complain is because he is my
    second. I keep trying to get it to him that if anybody but me had
    made the website he would have had to pay at least $800, probably more.
    Meanwhile, what do you guys think of the design?
    Micah

    Garret Mott wrote:
    > He wants a discount on $300?????????
    >
    > Sheesh. Maybe - if you have to work with him outside of web development -
    > you should just give him the whole 300 back & make him feel like the
    > small-minded person he seems to be. Something along the lines of :"I've
    > never had a client complain before. I don't want an unhappy one now.
    > Here's your $300 & I'm sorry it didn't work out" In the long run, that
    > might be the cheapest way out also!
    >
    > Garret Mott
    >
    > Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
    > Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
    >
    >


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