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  1. #1
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default OT: what do I say?

    Hi guys,
    just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on Google.
    The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to hardly get
    on google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it for him to
    see what was wrong and way his site is not in Google. Here is what his
    friend said: "He claims the problem is in the addressing and I will not
    show up until this is corrected. He says there are some errors that
    prevent it from happening. Could you check this out and fix it for me?".
    I do not think the guy knows what he is talking about, as it is included
    in Google, just pretty low, but what is to expect for a 2 month old site?
    Here is what my client wants: "If this is fact you owe me a discount
    this lack of exposure may be costing us sales." I am going to email him
    and say 'Whatever', but thought I would get your thoughts first.
    I have submitted XML sitemaps, submitted to Google, MSN, and some others.
    Micah

    http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    tutorials on NOF

  2. #2
    LBA
    Guest

    Default Re: OT: what do I say?

    I just searched for "bees" and there are 15 million results. He expects
    you to be on top of that list? That was your mistake for not telling
    him, from the get-go, that you can't guarantee him a top search rank...
    you can only promise to build his site correctly, using accepted
    practices, assuring him that his site will have a fair shot. After
    that, it's all about content... and he's in charge of that. But it also
    depends on what people search for. You can point out to him that if you
    search for "cedar glen bees"........ he's NUMBER ONE!

    Laurence


    Micah Klesick wrote:
    > Hi guys,
    > just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    > http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    > He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on
    > Google. The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to
    > hardly get on google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it
    > for him to see what was wrong and way his site is not in Google. Here
    > is what his friend said: "He claims the problem is in the addressing
    > and I will not show up until this is corrected. He says there are some
    > errors that prevent it from happening. Could you check this out and
    > fix it for me?".
    > I do not think the guy knows what he is talking about, as it is
    > included in Google, just pretty low, but what is to expect for a 2
    > month old site?
    > Here is what my client wants: "If this is fact you owe me a discount
    > this lack of exposure may be costing us sales." I am going to email
    > him and say 'Whatever', but thought I would get your thoughts first.
    > I have submitted XML sitemaps, submitted to Google, MSN, and some others.
    > Micah
    >
    > http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    > tutorials on NOF


  3. #3
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default Re: OT: what do I say?

    I told him that from the start, I have told him that a 1/2 dz times, he
    just thinks that I can just say be #1 and is!
    What I think makes him think that is my other beekeeping site,
    www.stanwood-camanobeekeepers.com, and it is #1 if you search stanwood
    bees, etc. I did the search engines using Google's recommendations.
    What more does he want?

    LBA wrote:
    > I just searched for "bees" and there are 15 million results. He expects
    > you to be on top of that list? That was your mistake for not telling
    > him, from the get-go, that you can't guarantee him a top search rank...
    > you can only promise to build his site correctly, using accepted
    > practices, assuring him that his site will have a fair shot. After
    > that, it's all about content... and he's in charge of that. But it also
    > depends on what people search for. You can point out to him that if you
    > search for "cedar glen bees"........ he's NUMBER ONE!
    >
    > Laurence
    >
    >
    > Micah Klesick wrote:
    >> Hi guys,
    >> just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    >> http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    >> He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on
    >> Google. The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to
    >> hardly get on google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it
    >> for him to see what was wrong and way his site is not in Google. Here
    >> is what his friend said: "He claims the problem is in the addressing
    >> and I will not show up until this is corrected. He says there are some
    >> errors that prevent it from happening. Could you check this out and
    >> fix it for me?".
    >> I do not think the guy knows what he is talking about, as it is
    >> included in Google, just pretty low, but what is to expect for a 2
    >> month old site?
    >> Here is what my client wants: "If this is fact you owe me a discount
    >> this lack of exposure may be costing us sales." I am going to email
    >> him and say 'Whatever', but thought I would get your thoughts first.
    >> I have submitted XML sitemaps, submitted to Google, MSN, and some others.
    >> Micah
    >>
    >> http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    >> tutorials on NOF


  4. #4
    Richard Wayne Garganta
    Guest

    Default Re: OT: what do I say?

    Not to mention - sometimes for generic products like that one has to
    face the fact they need to pay for sponsored links to get top rankings.

    LBA wrote:
    > I just searched for "bees" and there are 15 million results. He expects
    > you to be on top of that list? That was your mistake for not telling
    > him, from the get-go, that you can't guarantee him a top search rank...
    > you can only promise to build his site correctly, using accepted
    > practices, assuring him that his site will have a fair shot. After
    > that, it's all about content... and he's in charge of that. But it also
    > depends on what people search for. You can point out to him that if you
    > search for "cedar glen bees"........ he's NUMBER ONE!
    >
    > Laurence
    >
    >
    > Micah Klesick wrote:
    >> Hi guys,
    >> just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    >> http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    >> He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on
    >> Google. The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to
    >> hardly get on google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it
    >> for him to see what was wrong and way his site is not in Google. Here
    >> is what his friend said: "He claims the problem is in the addressing
    >> and I will not show up until this is corrected. He says there are some
    >> errors that prevent it from happening. Could you check this out and
    >> fix it for me?".
    >> I do not think the guy knows what he is talking about, as it is
    >> included in Google, just pretty low, but what is to expect for a 2
    >> month old site?
    >> Here is what my client wants: "If this is fact you owe me a discount
    >> this lack of exposure may be costing us sales." I am going to email
    >> him and say 'Whatever', but thought I would get your thoughts first.
    >> I have submitted XML sitemaps, submitted to Google, MSN, and some others.
    >> Micah
    >>
    >> http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    >> tutorials on NOF


  5. #5
    Mike Coombes
    Guest

    Default Re: OT: what do I say?

    I always advise people (unless they have a large advertising budget) not
    to expect much in the way of web sales in the first 12 months, as
    building google ranking and traffic organically is a gradual process.
    You can suggest ways he can be proactive - I noticed there are plenty of
    bee-keeping forums, and participating in them (with your link in your
    signature) helps, as would a bee keeping blog on site and writing bee
    keeping articles.

    Richard Wayne Garganta wrote:
    > Not to mention - sometimes for generic products like that one has to
    > face the fact they need to pay for sponsored links to get top rankings.
    >
    > LBA wrote:
    >> I just searched for "bees" and there are 15 million results. He
    >> expects you to be on top of that list? That was your mistake for not
    >> telling him, from the get-go, that you can't guarantee him a top
    >> search rank... you can only promise to build his site correctly,
    >> using accepted practices, assuring him that his site will have a fair
    >> shot. After that, it's all about content... and he's in charge of
    >> that. But it also depends on what people search for. You can point
    >> out to him that if you search for "cedar glen bees"........ he's
    >> NUMBER ONE!
    >>
    >> Laurence
    >>
    >>
    >> Micah Klesick wrote:
    >>> Hi guys,
    >>> just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    >>> http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    >>> He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on
    >>> Google. The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to
    >>> hardly get on google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check
    >>> it for him to see what was wrong and way his site is not in Google.
    >>> Here is what his friend said: "He claims the problem is in the
    >>> addressing and I will not show up until this is corrected. He says
    >>> there are some errors that prevent it from happening. Could you
    >>> check this out and fix it for me?".
    >>> I do not think the guy knows what he is talking about, as it is
    >>> included in Google, just pretty low, but what is to expect for a 2
    >>> month old site?
    >>> Here is what my client wants: "If this is fact you owe me a discount
    >>> this lack of exposure may be costing us sales." I am going to email
    >>> him and say 'Whatever', but thought I would get your thoughts first.
    >>> I have submitted XML sitemaps, submitted to Google, MSN, and some
    >>> others.
    >>> Micah
    >>>
    >>> http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    >>> tutorials on NOF


  6. #6
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default Re: OT: what do I say?

    Mike Coombes wrote:
    > I always advise people (unless they have a large advertising budget) not
    > to expect much in the way of web sales in the first 12 months, as
    > building google ranking and traffic organically is a gradual process.
    > You can suggest ways he can be proactive - I noticed there are plenty of
    > bee-keeping forums, and participating in them (with your link in your
    > signature) helps, as would a bee keeping blog on site and writing bee
    > keeping articles.
    >


    I know, he was fine for a week or two, then he went and talked to that
    guy again, and bugging me again. <grr> The designer will not tell him
    what the errors are, though the designers says that the errors are like
    Major errors. I think he just want my clients business, which I would
    gladly hand over to him, except he is more expensive, and my client does
    not want that.

    Micah

  7. #7
    Garret Mott
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    Hi Micah -

    > just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    > http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    > He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on Google.
    > The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to hardly get on
    > google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it for him to...


    My first answer to your question was to say "Please find another web
    developer". Realizing that might not be the best option<g>, I did a little
    checking. Entering "Cedar Glen Bees" on Google returns them as #1. "Bees
    & Queens" they come in much lower.

    I believe you are correct in saying 2 months is not long enough. 6 maybe.
    Also - are they willing to pay for a submission service? That'll help.
    Would they like to research what the content is for every apiary supply
    place on the web? Find that & make sure your site has the same info, then
    wait months more. Would they like to write Google & ask them exactly what
    they need to do to be #1? I'm sure Google will be happy to explain
    precisely what to do.

    Forgive me if I sound sarcastic, but your client's expectations are absurd -
    unless you made guarantees as to rankings? Charged them $100,000 for the
    site?

    I have not run the site through W3C validation. Have you? Non-compliant
    code will hurt the ranking - if that's what the "friend" is saying, then
    he's correct. I'd offer to make sure it is compliant & then tell them that
    you are not the bee expert - they are & they need to tell you what people
    will be searching for.

    Even better, tell them to hire their friend & see how much better he does.
    If he's so great, how come they didn't hire him to begin with?

    I've been developing software for over 25 years & doing sites for 15 or
    more. Please feel free to pass what I've said along to your client & good
    luck!

    Regards,

    Garret Mott

    Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
    Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com



  8. #8
    Garret Mott
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    And....

    I searched for "Bees & Queens" & got:

    Results 41 - 50 of about 1,330,000 for bees & queens.



  9. #9
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    well, "> then tell them that
    >> you are not the bee expert - they are & they need to tell you what people
    >> will be searching for."

    I am actually better at beekeeping than he is. LOL I also made my local
    clubs website, www.stanwood-camanobeekeepers.com and it is REALLY high
    in the engines. That is kind of why I cannot drop him, I am his
    assistant with a research apiary for Washington State University.

    I should check to see exactly how high they are, you said that they were
    41-50 in "bees and queens"? Thats darn good for two month old site!
    I have run it through a while ago, I will have to check again.
    I was going to ask him why he did not get his other friend to do the
    site, and ask for some of his friend's websites.
    I made no guarantees to his placement, matter of fact, I told him I
    could do nothing but optimize the site and submit it and that was all.
    I only charged him $300 bucks, and I have not even charged him for
    several hours of editing!!
    Micah
    Garret Mott wrote:
    > Hi Micah -
    >
    >> just wondering your opinion on website I just created for a client.
    >> http://www.cedarglenbees.com
    >> He really likes it, but he is not happy because it is not top on Google.
    >> The site has been up for about 2 months, not enough time to hardly get on
    >> google, let alone top. He says he had a friend check it for him to...

    >
    > My first answer to your question was to say "Please find another web
    > developer". Realizing that might not be the best option<g>, I did a little
    > checking. Entering "Cedar Glen Bees" on Google returns them as #1. "Bees
    > & Queens" they come in much lower.
    >
    > I believe you are correct in saying 2 months is not long enough. 6 maybe.
    > Also - are they willing to pay for a submission service? That'll help.
    > Would they like to research what the content is for every apiary supply
    > place on the web? Find that & make sure your site has the same info, then
    > wait months more. Would they like to write Google & ask them exactly what
    > they need to do to be #1? I'm sure Google will be happy to explain
    > precisely what to do.
    >
    > Forgive me if I sound sarcastic, but your client's expectations are absurd -
    > unless you made guarantees as to rankings? Charged them $100,000 for the
    > site?
    >
    > I have not run the site through W3C validation. Have you? Non-compliant
    > code will hurt the ranking - if that's what the "friend" is saying, then
    > he's correct. I'd offer to make sure it is compliant & then tell them that
    > you are not the bee expert - they are & they need to tell you what people
    > will be searching for.
    >
    > Even better, tell them to hire their friend & see how much better he does.
    > If he's so great, how come they didn't hire him to begin with?
    >
    > I've been developing software for over 25 years & doing sites for 15 or
    > more. Please feel free to pass what I've said along to your client & good
    > luck!
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Garret Mott
    >
    > Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
    > Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
    >
    >


  10. #10
    Garret Mott
    Guest

    Default Re: what do I say?

    He wants a discount on $300?????????

    Sheesh. Maybe - if you have to work with him outside of web development -
    you should just give him the whole 300 back & make him feel like the
    small-minded person he seems to be. Something along the lines of :"I've
    never had a client complain before. I don't want an unhappy one now.
    Here's your $300 & I'm sorry it didn't work out" In the long run, that
    might be the cheapest way out also!

    Garret Mott

    Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
    Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com



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