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Thread: *TARGET>>>> Waterspider

  1. #1
    Waterspider
    Guest

    Default *TARGET>>>> Waterspider

    Okay, fair is fair.

    I'm always happy to criticize you guys, so here's my entire collection of
    published internet websites, all done with NOF 4.1... hit me with your best
    shot!
    Honestly, I will appreciate all feedback-- positive feedback is great for my
    ego and negative feedback is great for my work.

    www.penderharbour.org - My baby... my idea, my photos, my art, my writing...
    soon to be replaced with a major NOF 10 revision and, hopefully, soon to
    earn some ad revenue.

    www.midwaypower.com - Client was a joy to work with, left artistic decisions
    up to me.

    www.salmonfishingbc.ca - Client and wife didn't always agree on what they
    wanted me to do.

    www.penderharbour.com - Geek buddy talked me into letting him set up site
    with php. It's next on my list for a major revision. To me, this is right up
    there on the list of Buttugly Websites... everything's wrong, the colour,
    the copywriting, the layout, the navigation. <cringe> Old saying... if you
    want something done right, do it yourself!



  2. #2
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default Re: *TARGET>>>> Waterspider

    Waterspider wrote:
    > Okay, fair is fair.


    LOL

    >
    > I'm always happy to criticize you guys, so here's my entire collection of
    > published internet websites, all done with NOF 4.1... hit me with your best
    > shot!
    > Honestly, I will appreciate all feedback-- positive feedback is great for my
    > ego and negative feedback is great for my work.
    >
    > www.penderharbour.org - My baby... my idea, my photos, my art, my writing...
    > soon to be replaced with a major NOF 10 revision and, hopefully, soon to
    > earn some ad revenue.

    Not bad, The white text on the right side is a little hard to see on the
    edge. For some reason the yellow "quick links" looked out of place.
    I think the site would look better centered. I have a 17in monitor,
    and it fills a good 3/4 of it, it probably over fills it on 14 monitors.
    I like the color scheme.
    >
    > www.midwaypower.com - Client was a joy to work with, left artistic decisions
    > up to me.

    Another site I think should be centered. The text on some of the pages
    looks unconstrained. Also the text has to much bold. It might be better
    with a different font that does not need to be bold.
    I do like the short and sweet feel of it.

    >
    > www.salmonfishingbc.ca - Client and wife didn't always agree on what they
    > wanted me to do.
    >

    Then it is pretty good for having disagreeing clients. <g>

    > www.penderharbour.com - Geek buddy talked me into letting him set up site
    > with php. It's next on my list for a major revision. To me, this is right up
    > there on the list of Buttugly Websites... everything's wrong, the colour,
    > the copywriting, the layout, the navigation. <cringe> Old saying... if you
    > want something done right, do it yourself!
    >

    I totally agree. <g>

    Let me guess, you live in Pender Harbour. right? <g>

    >


    Okay, I am going to let you look at all of my sites just for fun. <g>
    Look at them and tell me what you think.
    http://www.pilgrimsfaith.com - my sisters magazine.
    http://www.stanwood-camanobeekeepers.com - my local beekeeping club.
    http://www.saveourbees.creationtidbits.com - my SAVE OUR BEES website.
    http://www.creationtidbits.com - looking for a rework, just not sure
    what. Creation Sciece, MY pet topic
    http://www.webtest.creationtidbits.com - In the subdomain, just about done.
    http://www.store.cedarglenbees.com - the store part of
    www.cedarglenbees.com, not finished yet.
    http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com - My tutorial website on NOF

    I think that is all, (I started my first one,
    www.stanwood-camanobeekeepers.com, almost exactly 1 year ago, and that
    is how long I have been doing websites.)
    Micah
    www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com

  3. #3
    Richard Wayne Garganta
    Guest

    Default Re: *TARGET>>>> Waterspider

    The midway site - again should be centered. You have white fringe on
    your graphics. I know it takes some forethought while designing the
    graphic but it is possible to completely avoid that. Nice site.

    Waterspider wrote:
    > Okay, fair is fair.
    >
    > I'm always happy to criticize you guys, so here's my entire collection of
    > published internet websites, all done with NOF 4.1... hit me with your best
    > shot!
    > Honestly, I will appreciate all feedback-- positive feedback is great for my
    > ego and negative feedback is great for my work.
    >
    > www.penderharbour.org - My baby... my idea, my photos, my art, my writing...
    > soon to be replaced with a major NOF 10 revision and, hopefully, soon to
    > earn some ad revenue.
    >
    > www.midwaypower.com - Client was a joy to work with, left artistic decisions
    > up to me.
    >
    > www.salmonfishingbc.ca - Client and wife didn't always agree on what they
    > wanted me to do.
    >
    > www.penderharbour.com - Geek buddy talked me into letting him set up site
    > with php. It's next on my list for a major revision. To me, this is right up
    > there on the list of Buttugly Websites... everything's wrong, the colour,
    > the copywriting, the layout, the navigation. <cringe> Old saying... if you
    > want something done right, do it yourself!
    >
    >


  4. #4
    Richard Wayne Garganta
    Guest

    Default Re: *TARGET>>>> Waterspider

    The other sites were nice, but again not centered.

    Waterspider wrote:
    > Okay, fair is fair.
    >
    > I'm always happy to criticize you guys, so here's my entire collection of
    > published internet websites, all done with NOF 4.1... hit me with your best
    > shot!
    > Honestly, I will appreciate all feedback-- positive feedback is great for my
    > ego and negative feedback is great for my work.
    >
    > www.penderharbour.org - My baby... my idea, my photos, my art, my writing...
    > soon to be replaced with a major NOF 10 revision and, hopefully, soon to
    > earn some ad revenue.
    >
    > www.midwaypower.com - Client was a joy to work with, left artistic decisions
    > up to me.
    >
    > www.salmonfishingbc.ca - Client and wife didn't always agree on what they
    > wanted me to do.
    >
    > www.penderharbour.com - Geek buddy talked me into letting him set up site
    > with php. It's next on my list for a major revision. To me, this is right up
    > there on the list of Buttugly Websites... everything's wrong, the colour,
    > the copywriting, the layout, the navigation. <cringe> Old saying... if you
    > want something done right, do it yourself!
    >
    >


  5. #5
    Linda Gerfen
    Guest

    Default Re: *TARGET>>>> Waterspider


    "Waterspider" <nospam@all.com> wrote in message
    news:eveac1$h5b3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    > Okay, fair is fair.
    >
    > I'm always happy to criticize you guys, so here's my entire collection of
    > published internet websites, all done with NOF 4.1... hit me with your
    > best shot!
    > Honestly, I will appreciate all feedback-- positive feedback is great for
    > my ego and negative feedback is great for my work.
    >
    > www.penderharbour.org - My baby... my idea, my photos, my art, my
    > writing... soon to be replaced with a major NOF 10 revision and,
    > hopefully, soon to earn some ad revenue.
    >
    > www.midwaypower.com - Client was a joy to work with, left artistic
    > decisions up to me.
    >
    > www.salmonfishingbc.ca - Client and wife didn't always agree on what they
    > wanted me to do.
    >
    > www.penderharbour.com - Geek buddy talked me into letting him set up site
    > with php. It's next on my list for a major revision. To me, this is right
    > up there on the list of Buttugly Websites... everything's wrong, the
    > colour, the copywriting, the layout, the navigation. <cringe> Old
    > saying... if you want something done right, do it yourself!
    >

    I liked the first three but the fourth one with all the orange I can see why
    it's on your list for a major revision.
    My baby, online since 2000 and first built with NOF 4, is
    www.shoeboxrecipes.com - currently built with NOF 9. It went through a
    period of nearly two years using Mambo & then Joomla but I didn't like not
    having the hands-on feeling that NOF provides. Using a CMS is certainly easy
    to add new content but I missed NOF too much to continue along that path. I
    have other sites that I won't mention here (some use a CMS) but they're all
    due for major rebuilds in NOF 10 once I get my head wrapped around it.



  6. #6
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default Re: *TARGET>>>> Waterspider

    Linda Gerfen wrote:

    >>

    > I liked the first three but the fourth one with all the orange I can see why
    > it's on your list for a major revision.
    > My baby, online since 2000 and first built with NOF 4, is
    > www.shoeboxrecipes.com - currently built with NOF 9. It went through a
    > period of nearly two years using Mambo & then Joomla but I didn't like not
    > having the hands-on feeling that NOF provides. Using a CMS is certainly easy
    > to add new content but I missed NOF too much to continue along that path. I
    > have other sites that I won't mention here (some use a CMS) but they're all
    > due for major rebuilds in NOF 10 once I get my head wrapped around it.
    >
    >


    Nice Site, one thing you need it better navigation.
    Very clean look.
    Micah
    www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    tutorials on NOF

  7. #7
    Linda Gerfen
    Guest

    Default Re: *TARGET>>>> Waterspider


    "Micah Klesick" <Micah@creationtidbits.com> wrote in message
    news:eveegn$h5b10@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com. ..
    > Linda Gerfen wrote:
    >
    >>>

    >> I liked the first three but the fourth one with all the orange I can see
    >> why it's on your list for a major revision.
    >> My baby, online since 2000 and first built with NOF 4, is
    >> www.shoeboxrecipes.com - currently built with NOF 9. It went through a
    >> period of nearly two years using Mambo & then Joomla but I didn't like
    >> not having the hands-on feeling that NOF provides. Using a CMS is
    >> certainly easy to add new content but I missed NOF too much to continue
    >> along that path. I have other sites that I won't mention here (some use a
    >> CMS) but they're all due for major rebuilds in NOF 10 once I get my head
    >> wrapped around it.

    >
    > Nice Site, one thing you need it better navigation.
    > Very clean look.
    > Micah
    > www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com
    > tutorials on NOF


    Yes, I have to agree. The site is currently approaching 900 pages and making
    navigation simple is my nemesis! I have tried using the NOF graphical
    navbars but that takes up a lot of space to do it right, even using the
    flyouts for related sections. Nevermind the multiple, duplicate graphics
    involved in generating the site as a result. I suppose I could "bite the
    bullet" and take that route with the next redesign. Back to the drawing
    board. Also, I don't care for the looks of the text navbar when used
    vertically.

    I have also tried using javascript navigation found at Dynamic Drive but at
    best it looked clunky and ugly. To add to the dilemna, I've read that no
    website needs more than 7 items in the main navigation. Amazed that I still
    have any hair left after pulling it out over this.

    The site is constructed using 35 separate NOF files all brought together by
    each having the same set of identical "base" pages. Each of the "base" pages
    is further developed in its own .nod so no additional linking using actual
    URLs is required. Doing it this way simplifies adding content and no one
    file is ever too large for NOF. Of course when a redesign occurs, it does
    require that the home page be put into a template and imported into each of
    the other sites. Not hard but it can sometimes take me a few days to
    accomplish. Have to come up for air now and then.

    Linda



  8. #8
    Micah Klesick
    Guest

    Default Re: *TARGET>>>> Waterspider


    > Yes, I have to agree. The site is currently approaching 900 pages and making
    > navigation simple is my nemesis! I have tried using the NOF graphical
    > navbars but that takes up a lot of space to do it right, even using the
    > flyouts for related sections. Nevermind the multiple, duplicate graphics
    > involved in generating the site as a result. I suppose I could "bite the
    > bullet" and take that route with the next redesign. Back to the drawing
    > board. Also, I don't care for the looks of the text navbar when used
    > vertically.
    >
    > I have also tried using javascript navigation found at Dynamic Drive but at
    > best it looked clunky and ugly. To add to the dilemna, I've read that no
    > website needs more than 7 items in the main navigation. Amazed that I still
    > have any hair left after pulling it out over this.
    >
    > The site is constructed using 35 separate NOF files all brought together by
    > each having the same set of identical "base" pages. Each of the "base" pages
    > is further developed in its own .nod so no additional linking using actual
    > URLs is required. Doing it this way simplifies adding content and no one
    > file is ever too large for NOF. Of course when a redesign occurs, it does
    > require that the home page be put into a template and imported into each of
    > the other sites. Not hard but it can sometimes take me a few days to
    > accomplish. Have to come up for air now and then.
    >
    > Linda
    >
    >


    I was thinking along the lines of the navigation you have in a more
    clear place, not a different one.
    Micah

  9. #9
    Waterspider
    Guest

    Default Re: *TARGET>>>> Waterspider

    Reply interspersed

    "Micah Klesick" <Micah@creationtidbits.com> wrote ...
    > Waterspider wrote:
    >> Okay, fair is fair.

    > LOL
    >
    >> www.penderharbour.org - My baby... my idea, my photos, my art, my
    >> writing... soon to be replaced with a major NOF 10 revision and,
    >> hopefully, soon to earn some ad revenue.

    > Not bad, The white text on the right side is a little hard to see on the
    > edge. For some reason the yellow "quick links" looked out of place.
    > I think the site would look better centered. I have a 17in monitor, and
    > it fills a good 3/4 of it, it probably over fills it on 14 monitors.
    > I like the color scheme.


    Creepy. You've mentioned all the things I've changed in my revision. I
    ditched the right-hand vertical strip, replaced the Quick Links with a more
    subtle box of Uber Links and reduced the width of the page. I absolutely
    cannot figure out how to centre my pages; I don't think it's possible
    without the Dynamic Page option, and I don't want to go there because I lose
    the ability to layer graphics, i.e. the animated flag gif on the banner.
    Glad you like the colour scheme; it's not changed.
    >>
    >> www.midwaypower.com - Client was a joy to work with, left artistic
    >> decisions up to me.

    > Another site I think should be centered. The text on some of the pages
    > looks unconstrained. Also the text has to much bold. It might be better
    > with a different font that does not need to be bold.
    > I do like the short and sweet feel of it.


    Thanks! I agree that the bold looks a bit thick, but I was worried that some
    monitors might not display the white-on-blue clearly. At the time I didn't
    know how to create a transparent gif, and I'm not happy with the way the
    logos look pasted-on. The front-page logo was a nightmare of pixel editing!
    LOL, I've not looked at this one in a while... "Lineman Lance Seabrook" is
    now the company owner; his Dad is semi-retired.

    >>
    >> www.salmonfishingbc.ca - Client and wife didn't always agree on what they
    >> wanted me to do.
    >>

    > Then it is pretty good for having disagreeing clients. <g>


    LOL! They eventually split up. I'm not pleased with the logo-- it was a
    low-res gif that I used in a print ad for them, never expecting them to
    adopt it as a logo. Note to self: learn how to use Illustrator.
    >
    >> www.penderharbour.com - Geek buddy talked me into letting him set up site
    >> with php. It's next on my list for a major revision. To me, this is right
    >> up there on the list of Buttugly Websites... everything's wrong, the
    >> colour, the copywriting, the layout, the navigation. <cringe> Old
    >> saying... if you want something done right, do it yourself!

    > I totally agree. <g>


    I'm relieved to hear this. Hahaha-- had you said anything nice about it, I'd
    be really concerned about your sense of design.
    >
    > Let me guess, you live in Pender Harbour. right? <g>


    Good guess!
    >>

    >
    > Okay, I am going to let you look at all of my sites just for fun. <g>
    > Look at them and tell me what you think.


    > http://www.pilgrimsfaith.com - my sisters magazine.

    You're only 15??? No way! I apologize for being so hard on your work, I
    thought you were twice that. You, my man, are going to go places and do
    great things with a start like this. Don't tell anyone your age though;
    better to let them think you're older and have way more experience. <g> Oh
    yeah, your sister's site. I like it. Normally I wouldn't recommend that font
    (Georgia?) for body copy text, but it works well with the subject and the
    colour scheme. You shouldn't have capitalized "Three" (you find it). On the
    Current Issue page, however, you've used a font (Chiller or somthing like
    that) which probably won't display properly on a lot of browsers. There's
    less than ten reliable fonts, and a good idea to stick with them. Otherwise,
    make a gif or jpg of the text you want in uncommon fonts. One last thing...
    the Bible image is odd. Makes me wonder why it's there. Maybe it's a link? A
    mouseover says "Bible02 copy," which doesn't do a thing for me. I suggest
    that you find a better, smaller image, line it up under the nav bar and
    maybe put in a scripture quote for the mouseover. The site doesn't mention a
    particular religion, so someone like me has no clue which one it's about. Is
    this deliberate or an oversight? Finally, I've always liked that NOF style
    and never had the opportunity to apply it. It works very well here. Kudos to
    Emily for being a publisher. Amazing family! I suppose next I'll be hearing
    that Andrew's hobby is nuclear physics... Okay, on to the beekeepers...

    > http://www.stanwood-camanobeekeepers.com - my local beekeeping club.


    Excellent! Suggestions for improvements are minor. Nav Bar - make your boxes
    a touch wider so text doesn't get squeezed. Either don't frame any of your
    photos or frame them all with an identical border. I find most animated
    features annoying, but I love the purple bees that light on the edge of the
    page, subtle and nice.... but why are they purple? Each page should have the
    same text font and size-- you've got something different happening all over
    the place. I'm looking at Mentors... text runs away, off the right edge of
    the background. Events - better in a list or a table; spacing is wonky. But,
    I'm sure you see this stuff anyway. Again, you've made a perfect style
    choice. The swarm photos are awesome! I've got some good macro shots of
    honeybees on flowers (mostly lavender) if you'd like one.

    > http://www.saveourbees.creationtidbits.com - my SAVE OUR BEES website.


    Yes, you need to put some text there. Oh my, you have no goals!!! <g>
    Looks like this is in the development stage, so you can try a couple of
    things... get rid of the borders and different coloured text box
    backgrounds. The topic is fairly serious, so you want to focus on the
    content. Unless it's a title, don't centre it (block left is the easiest to
    read). I like the way your Photo Gallery works, but all pics should be the
    same size. Interesting topic; I'd not heard there was a problem.

    > http://www.creationtidbits.com - looking for a rework, just not sure what.
    > Creation Sciece, MY pet topic


    Waaay too busy, waaay too many boxes all over the place. And, be consistent
    with your text-- every page, same size, same font, always, always, always!
    You've put together some excellent styles on other sites, looks like this
    one needs one to give it some structure and form. You need a good navigation
    system too; as is, one gets the impression that some of those boxes are ads
    or links to other sites when in fact they're links to other pages in the
    site they're on. Oh yeah, about the ozone. <g> Ya think maybe if something
    could live without oxygen then maybe something else could live without an
    ozone layer?

    > http://www.webtest.creationtidbits.com - In the subdomain, just about
    > done.


    Looks very professional, very good, very well organized. I really can't find
    anything here that I don't like, but I have to come up with some kind of
    suggestion. Hmmm... okay, how bout a higher quality image/s for the banner?

    > http://www.store.cedarglenbees.com - the store part of


    Store part should like the rest of it.

    > www.cedarglenbees.com, not finished yet.


    Okay, I've already had a shot at this one.

    > http://www.learnNOF.creationtidbits.com - My tutorial website on NOF


    So here you're taking the position of a professional website developer,
    qualified to advise/instruct others with the use of NOF. Quite a
    responsibility. It looks good... but... BACK AWAY FROM THE BORDERS! You're
    getting better with consistence of font and size, but have another look at
    your site-- the objective is a seamless transition between pages. The frame
    for tutorials is unnecessary; just list them.
    >

    Wow, that was quite an excursion-- with dinner and a phone call as
    interruptions. Hope some of my suggestions/opinions help you out. Thanks for
    sharing.

    Waterspider



  10. #10
    Waterspider
    Guest

    Default Re: *TARGET>>>> Waterspider


    "Richard Wayne Garganta" <richinri@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:evedr4$h5b6@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    > The midway site - again should be centered. You have white fringe on your
    > graphics. I know it takes some forethought while designing the graphic
    > but it is possible to completely avoid that. Nice site.


    Thanks, Richard, I know about the "fringe" and have become much more skilled
    with PhotoShop since then. The next revision will be better.
    And, thanks for going so easy on me <g>
    I know there's lots of other things that could be improved.

    Waterspider



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