Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashes for me

[bw]

Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10 sites
in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)

Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that have
destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently when I
re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5 pages and
without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that when I clicked
the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the whole Page Design
area would go blank. After I started having problems I uninstalled and
reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again. I built 3 more
brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all when
re-optimized.

When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was a
backup folder before NOF crashed.)
5) Recovery was successful
6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.

So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home page
had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text and no
style. In other words, everything was gone.

I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of the
new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the site for
them too. When I asked them for more information what the problem was with
the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine how to fix my other
sites so that they would not crash), the response I received was:

"I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we offer a
perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis - releasing
fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an Update #4
in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes sites
become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen for
various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is, on the
time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you saved the
site, how often you switched views, etc."

I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon "the
time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved the
site, how often you switched views, etc."

Brian

[Nancy O]

Hey Brian,
Really sorry for your grief and frustration. We have all been there at one
time or another.

If you don't already own a copy of Dreamweaver CS3, you might still be able
to find ver.8 at a significantly reduced price. Because DW is not strictly
speaking a WYSIWYG html editor (there's really no such thing BTW), you must
have a basic understanding of xhtml or html, javascripts, table structure
and CSS to take full advantage of it's powerful features. Having said that,
DW does have a Design View pane that shows you your page layout while you're
working. Best of all, DW has much support from 3rd parties who make
extensions and tutorials for DW. Extensions are a bit like components to
help you build menus, forms, sprys, and all sorts of other great stuff.

Because DW is so powerful, some people find the learning curve steep at
first. My advice is to download a free trial of the software and use the
help (F1) getting started tutorials to see if you like it. Lynda.com is
another great resource for tutorials.

Three things I do not use in DW: Layers, Templates and Library Items. For
my money, Server Side Includes (SSI) are a much better substitute for NOF's
MasterBorders. I typically have a header.ssi, left navigation.ssi, right
sidebar.ssi and a footer.ssi on each page. When I need to change my left
navigation, I only have to republish one file; not an entire site of pages.
This really saves time.

If you decide to take the plunge and start using a web developer tool like
DW or MS Expression Web or something else, do yourself a favor. Take some
time to learn standards compliant Xhtml/Html and CSS. This will make your
transition much easier and rewarding.

Best of luck,

--Nancy O.
Alt-Web Design & Publishing
www.alt-web.com



"bw" <bw@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:fquf0i$cu02@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
> Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
> begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10
sites
> in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)
>
> Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that
have
> destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently when
I
> re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5 pages
and
> without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that when I
clicked
> the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the whole Page
Design
> area would go blank. After I started having problems I uninstalled and
> reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again. I built 3 more
> brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all when
> re-optimized.
>
> When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
> 1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
> 2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
> 3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
> 4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was a
> backup folder before NOF crashed.)
> 5) Recovery was successful
> 6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.
>
> So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home
page
> had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text and no
> style. In other words, everything was gone.
>
> I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of
the
> new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the site
for
> them too. When I asked them for more information what the problem was
with
> the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine how to fix my
other
> sites so that they would not crash), the response I received was:
>
> "I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we offer
a
> perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis -
releasing
> fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an Update #4
> in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
> http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes
sites
> become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen for
> various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is, on
the
> time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you saved
the
> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>
> I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon "the
> time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved the
> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>

[Peter Eisenburger]

eh - and that all for three sites with 3 to 5 pages each?? Nancy - oh!

P.


Nancy O wrote:
> Hey Brian,
> Really sorry for your grief and frustration. We have all been there at one
> time or another.
>
> If you don't already own a copy of Dreamweaver CS3, you might still be able
> to find ver.8 at a significantly reduced price. Because DW is not strictly
> speaking a WYSIWYG html editor (there's really no such thing BTW), you must
> have a basic understanding of xhtml or html, javascripts, table structure
> and CSS to take full advantage of it's powerful features. Having said that,
> DW does have a Design View pane that shows you your page layout while you're
> working. Best of all, DW has much support from 3rd parties who make
> extensions and tutorials for DW. Extensions are a bit like components to
> help you build menus, forms, sprys, and all sorts of other great stuff.
>
> Because DW is so powerful, some people find the learning curve steep at
> first. My advice is to download a free trial of the software and use the
> help (F1) getting started tutorials to see if you like it. Lynda.com is
> another great resource for tutorials.
>
> Three things I do not use in DW: Layers, Templates and Library Items. For
> my money, Server Side Includes (SSI) are a much better substitute for NOF's
> MasterBorders. I typically have a header.ssi, left navigation.ssi, right
> sidebar.ssi and a footer.ssi on each page. When I need to change my left
> navigation, I only have to republish one file; not an entire site of pages.
> This really saves time.
>
> If you decide to take the plunge and start using a web developer tool like
> DW or MS Expression Web or something else, do yourself a favor. Take some
> time to learn standards compliant Xhtml/Html and CSS. This will make your
> transition much easier and rewarding.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> --Nancy O.
> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
> www.alt-web.com
>
>
>
> "bw" <bw@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:fquf0i$cu02@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>> Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
>> begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10
> sites
>> in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)
>>
>> Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that
> have
>> destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently when
> I
>> re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5 pages
> and
>> without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that when I
> clicked
>> the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the whole Page
> Design
>> area would go blank. After I started having problems I uninstalled and
>> reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again. I built 3 more
>> brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all when
>> re-optimized.
>>
>> When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
>> 1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
>> 2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
>> 3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
>> 4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was a
>> backup folder before NOF crashed.)
>> 5) Recovery was successful
>> 6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.
>>
>> So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home
> page
>> had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text and no
>> style. In other words, everything was gone.
>>
>> I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of
> the
>> new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the site
> for
>> them too. When I asked them for more information what the problem was
> with
>> the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine how to fix my
> other
>> sites so that they would not crash), the response I received was:
>>
>> "I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we offer
> a
>> perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis -
> releasing
>> fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an Update #4
>> in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
>> http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes
> sites
>> become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen for
>> various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is, on
> the
>> time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you saved
> the
>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>
>> I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon "the
>> time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved the
>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Rosalind]

Brian,

I have not tried nof10, only nof9 and have a few problems with it, but
nothing like you are having.

A few months ago a friend gave me her copy of DW8, she couldn't use it at
all.

To begin with I couldn't make head nor tail of it, it is so totally
different from Nof. The first two books I got, were DW8 in Easy Steps and
The Missing Manual, I still struggled. Finally I picked up a book called
Creating a Page in Dreamweaver 8 a Visual Quick Project book and I was away.

I am rebuilding one of my sites that is running in Nof in DW, the few pages
I have running so far Validate in XHTML, It's hard work, but the result will
be worth it.

I'm still using Templates, but as I get more profficient I may change to
something else.

Rosalind

"Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
news:fqun5s$dt74@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
> Hey Brian,
> Really sorry for your grief and frustration. We have all been there at
> one
> time or another.
>
> If you don't already own a copy of Dreamweaver CS3, you might still be
> able
> to find ver.8 at a significantly reduced price. Because DW is not
> strictly
> speaking a WYSIWYG html editor (there's really no such thing BTW), you
> must
> have a basic understanding of xhtml or html, javascripts, table structure
> and CSS to take full advantage of it's powerful features. Having said
> that,
> DW does have a Design View pane that shows you your page layout while
> you're
> working. Best of all, DW has much support from 3rd parties who make
> extensions and tutorials for DW. Extensions are a bit like components to
> help you build menus, forms, sprys, and all sorts of other great stuff.
>
> Because DW is so powerful, some people find the learning curve steep at
> first. My advice is to download a free trial of the software and use the
> help (F1) getting started tutorials to see if you like it. Lynda.com is
> another great resource for tutorials.
>
> Three things I do not use in DW: Layers, Templates and Library Items.
> For
> my money, Server Side Includes (SSI) are a much better substitute for
> NOF's
> MasterBorders. I typically have a header.ssi, left navigation.ssi, right
> sidebar.ssi and a footer.ssi on each page. When I need to change my left
> navigation, I only have to republish one file; not an entire site of
> pages.
> This really saves time.
>
> If you decide to take the plunge and start using a web developer tool like
> DW or MS Expression Web or something else, do yourself a favor. Take some
> time to learn standards compliant Xhtml/Html and CSS. This will make your
> transition much easier and rewarding.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> --Nancy O.
> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
> www.alt-web.com
>
>
>
> "bw" <bw@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:fquf0i$cu02@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>> Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
>> begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10
> sites
>> in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)
>>
>> Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that
> have
>> destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently
>> when
> I
>> re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5 pages
> and
>> without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that when I
> clicked
>> the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the whole Page
> Design
>> area would go blank. After I started having problems I uninstalled and
>> reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again. I built 3
>> more
>> brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all when
>> re-optimized.
>>
>> When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
>> 1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
>> 2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
>> 3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
>> 4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was a
>> backup folder before NOF crashed.)
>> 5) Recovery was successful
>> 6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.
>>
>> So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home
> page
>> had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text and
>> no
>> style. In other words, everything was gone.
>>
>> I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of
> the
>> new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the site
> for
>> them too. When I asked them for more information what the problem was
> with
>> the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine how to fix my
> other
>> sites so that they would not crash), the response I received was:
>>
>> "I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we offer
> a
>> perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis -
> releasing
>> fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an Update
>> #4
>> in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
>> http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes
> sites
>> become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen for
>> various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is, on
> the
>> time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you saved
> the
>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>
>> I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon "the
>> time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved
>> the
>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[bw]

Nancy,

Thanks for all your help for the many times I've had questions about NOF!

Thanks for your suggestion on Dreamwaver. I would consider Dreamweaver, but
right now I don't have the time to brush up on xhtml, javascript and CSS.

Right now, just to get my websites back up, I decided to just recreate them
in NOF9. NOF 9 seems to be stable and it is the devil that I know.

Once I get caught up, I can download the trial version of Dreamweaver and
take a look. MS Expression Web might be another option for me.

Thanks,

Brian

"Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
news:fqun5s$dt74@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
> Hey Brian,
> Really sorry for your grief and frustration. We have all been there at
> one
> time or another.
>
> If you don't already own a copy of Dreamweaver CS3, you might still be
> able
> to find ver.8 at a significantly reduced price. Because DW is not
> strictly
> speaking a WYSIWYG html editor (there's really no such thing BTW), you
> must
> have a basic understanding of xhtml or html, javascripts, table structure
> and CSS to take full advantage of it's powerful features. Having said
> that,
> DW does have a Design View pane that shows you your page layout while
> you're
> working. Best of all, DW has much support from 3rd parties who make
> extensions and tutorials for DW. Extensions are a bit like components to
> help you build menus, forms, sprys, and all sorts of other great stuff.
>
> Because DW is so powerful, some people find the learning curve steep at
> first. My advice is to download a free trial of the software and use the
> help (F1) getting started tutorials to see if you like it. Lynda.com is
> another great resource for tutorials.
>
> Three things I do not use in DW: Layers, Templates and Library Items.
> For
> my money, Server Side Includes (SSI) are a much better substitute for
> NOF's
> MasterBorders. I typically have a header.ssi, left navigation.ssi, right
> sidebar.ssi and a footer.ssi on each page. When I need to change my left
> navigation, I only have to republish one file; not an entire site of
> pages.
> This really saves time.
>
> If you decide to take the plunge and start using a web developer tool like
> DW or MS Expression Web or something else, do yourself a favor. Take some
> time to learn standards compliant Xhtml/Html and CSS. This will make your
> transition much easier and rewarding.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> --Nancy O.
> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
> www.alt-web.com
>
>
>
> "bw" <bw@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:fquf0i$cu02@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>> Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
>> begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10
> sites
>> in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)
>>
>> Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that
> have
>> destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently
>> when
> I
>> re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5 pages
> and
>> without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that when I
> clicked
>> the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the whole Page
> Design
>> area would go blank. After I started having problems I uninstalled and
>> reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again. I built 3
>> more
>> brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all when
>> re-optimized.
>>
>> When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
>> 1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
>> 2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
>> 3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
>> 4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was a
>> backup folder before NOF crashed.)
>> 5) Recovery was successful
>> 6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.
>>
>> So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home
> page
>> had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text and
>> no
>> style. In other words, everything was gone.
>>
>> I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of
> the
>> new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the site
> for
>> them too. When I asked them for more information what the problem was
> with
>> the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine how to fix my
> other
>> sites so that they would not crash), the response I received was:
>>
>> "I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we offer
> a
>> perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis -
> releasing
>> fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an Update
>> #4
>> in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
>> http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes
> sites
>> become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen for
>> various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is, on
> the
>> time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you saved
> the
>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>
>> I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon "the
>> time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved
>> the
>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Nancy O]

Peter,
I think it matters little if you're working on 3 sites with 3-5 pages or
3000 pages. If a tool isn't working for you, it's time to get a better one.

When I can't pound nails with my cute little slim-line hammer that I keep in
my kitchen drawer, I go out and get a real hammer from the garage. Same
thing goes for moving from NOF to DW or any other web developer tool kit.
I'm not bashing NOF. When it works,
it's great. I think that's why it's so hard for people to let go of it. But
when the frustration factor begins to exceed the merits or capabilities of a
tool (any tool), it's time to consider alternatives and quite possibly learn
something new along the way.


--Nancy O.
Alt-Web Design & Publishing
www.alt-web.com





"Peter Eisenburger" <peter@eisenburger.de> wrote in message
news:fqv14h$gkv1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
> eh - and that all for three sites with 3 to 5 pages each?? Nancy - oh!
>
> P.
>
>
> Nancy O wrote:
> > Hey Brian,
> > Really sorry for your grief and frustration. We have all been there at
one
> > time or another.
> >
> > If you don't already own a copy of Dreamweaver CS3, you might still be
able
> > to find ver.8 at a significantly reduced price. Because DW is not
strictly
> > speaking a WYSIWYG html editor (there's really no such thing BTW), you
must
> > have a basic understanding of xhtml or html, javascripts, table
structure
> > and CSS to take full advantage of it's powerful features. Having said
that,
> > DW does have a Design View pane that shows you your page layout while
you're
> > working. Best of all, DW has much support from 3rd parties who make
> > extensions and tutorials for DW. Extensions are a bit like components to
> > help you build menus, forms, sprys, and all sorts of other great stuff.
> >
> > Because DW is so powerful, some people find the learning curve steep at
> > first. My advice is to download a free trial of the software and use the
> > help (F1) getting started tutorials to see if you like it. Lynda.com is
> > another great resource for tutorials.
> >
> > Three things I do not use in DW: Layers, Templates and Library Items.
For
> > my money, Server Side Includes (SSI) are a much better substitute for
NOF's
> > MasterBorders. I typically have a header.ssi, left navigation.ssi,
right
> > sidebar.ssi and a footer.ssi on each page. When I need to change my left
> > navigation, I only have to republish one file; not an entire site of
pages.
> > This really saves time.
> >
> > If you decide to take the plunge and start using a web developer tool
like
> > DW or MS Expression Web or something else, do yourself a favor. Take
some
> > time to learn standards compliant Xhtml/Html and CSS. This will make
your
> > transition much easier and rewarding.
> >
> > Best of luck,
> >
> > --Nancy O.
> > Alt-Web Design & Publishing
> > www.alt-web.com
> >
> >
> >
> > "bw" <bw@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:fquf0i$cu02@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
> >> Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
> >> begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10
> > sites
> >> in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)
> >>
> >> Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that
> > have
> >> destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently
when
> > I
> >> re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5 pages
> > and
> >> without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that when I
> > clicked
> >> the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the whole Page
> > Design
> >> area would go blank. After I started having problems I uninstalled and
> >> reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again. I built 3
more
> >> brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all when
> >> re-optimized.
> >>
> >> When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
> >> 1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
> >> 2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
> >> 3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
> >> 4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was
a
> >> backup folder before NOF crashed.)
> >> 5) Recovery was successful
> >> 6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.
> >>
> >> So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home
> > page
> >> had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text and
no
> >> style. In other words, everything was gone.
> >>
> >> I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of
> > the
> >> new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the
site
> > for
> >> them too. When I asked them for more information what the problem was
> > with
> >> the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine how to fix my
> > other
> >> sites so that they would not crash), the response I received was:
> >>
> >> "I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we
offer
> > a
> >> perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis -
> > releasing
> >> fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an Update
#4
> >> in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
> >> http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes
> > sites
> >> become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen
for
> >> various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is,
on
> > the
> >> time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you saved
> > the
> >> site, how often you switched views, etc."
> >>
> >> I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon
"the
> >> time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved
the
> >> site, how often you switched views, etc."
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

[Richard Wayne Garganta]

For those needing to transition you might try Blumentals WebBuilder
program - you will learn to program the way web programmers need to
program now - with full CSS and Javascript integration.


Rosalind wrote:
> Brian,
>
> I have not tried nof10, only nof9 and have a few problems with it, but
> nothing like you are having.
>
> A few months ago a friend gave me her copy of DW8, she couldn't use it at
> all.
>
> To begin with I couldn't make head nor tail of it, it is so totally
> different from Nof. The first two books I got, were DW8 in Easy Steps and
> The Missing Manual, I still struggled. Finally I picked up a book called
> Creating a Page in Dreamweaver 8 a Visual Quick Project book and I was away.
>
> I am rebuilding one of my sites that is running in Nof in DW, the few pages
> I have running so far Validate in XHTML, It's hard work, but the result will
> be worth it.
>
> I'm still using Templates, but as I get more profficient I may change to
> something else.
>
> Rosalind
>
> "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
> news:fqun5s$dt74@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>> Hey Brian,
>> Really sorry for your grief and frustration. We have all been there at
>> one
>> time or another.
>>
>> If you don't already own a copy of Dreamweaver CS3, you might still be
>> able
>> to find ver.8 at a significantly reduced price. Because DW is not
>> strictly
>> speaking a WYSIWYG html editor (there's really no such thing BTW), you
>> must
>> have a basic understanding of xhtml or html, javascripts, table structure
>> and CSS to take full advantage of it's powerful features. Having said
>> that,
>> DW does have a Design View pane that shows you your page layout while
>> you're
>> working. Best of all, DW has much support from 3rd parties who make
>> extensions and tutorials for DW. Extensions are a bit like components to
>> help you build menus, forms, sprys, and all sorts of other great stuff.
>>
>> Because DW is so powerful, some people find the learning curve steep at
>> first. My advice is to download a free trial of the software and use the
>> help (F1) getting started tutorials to see if you like it. Lynda.com is
>> another great resource for tutorials.
>>
>> Three things I do not use in DW: Layers, Templates and Library Items.
>> For
>> my money, Server Side Includes (SSI) are a much better substitute for
>> NOF's
>> MasterBorders. I typically have a header.ssi, left navigation.ssi, right
>> sidebar.ssi and a footer.ssi on each page. When I need to change my left
>> navigation, I only have to republish one file; not an entire site of
>> pages.
>> This really saves time.
>>
>> If you decide to take the plunge and start using a web developer tool like
>> DW or MS Expression Web or something else, do yourself a favor. Take some
>> time to learn standards compliant Xhtml/Html and CSS. This will make your
>> transition much easier and rewarding.
>>
>> Best of luck,
>>
>> --Nancy O.
>> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
>> www.alt-web.com
>>
>>
>>
>> "bw" <bw@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:fquf0i$cu02@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>>> Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
>>> begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10
>> sites
>>> in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)
>>>
>>> Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that
>> have
>>> destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently
>>> when
>> I
>>> re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5 pages
>> and
>>> without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that when I
>> clicked
>>> the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the whole Page
>> Design
>>> area would go blank. After I started having problems I uninstalled and
>>> reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again. I built 3
>>> more
>>> brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all when
>>> re-optimized.
>>>
>>> When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
>>> 1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
>>> 2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
>>> 3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
>>> 4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was a
>>> backup folder before NOF crashed.)
>>> 5) Recovery was successful
>>> 6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.
>>>
>>> So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home
>> page
>>> had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text and
>>> no
>>> style. In other words, everything was gone.
>>>
>>> I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of
>> the
>>> new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the site
>> for
>>> them too. When I asked them for more information what the problem was
>> with
>>> the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine how to fix my
>> other
>>> sites so that they would not crash), the response I received was:
>>>
>>> "I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we offer
>> a
>>> perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis -
>> releasing
>>> fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an Update
>>> #4
>>> in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
>>> http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes
>> sites
>>> become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen for
>>> various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is, on
>> the
>>> time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you saved
>> the
>>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>>
>>> I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon "the
>>> time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved
>>> the
>>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

[David]

Well, I've been with Nof since 7.0, as with any software, some
excellent things, some crappy things and a whole lot in between.
Overall, it is a good product for the price. I have certainly earned
many many more $$ than the purcahse price.

However, it is not the only tool I use. I also use 4D site designer in
conjunction with NoF as it does things NoF can only dream of, like
decent CMS, great e-commerce, flexible news, etc. A H U G E learning
curve, but well worth the effort.

For my money, NoF is very good value.

I have tried DW, before I firts met NoF and again last year, and I am
not impressed, but that's just my opinion.



On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:31:14 -0600, "bw" <bw@nospam.com> wrote:

>Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
>begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10 sites
>in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)
>
>Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that have
>destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently when I
>re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5 pages and
>without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that when I clicked
>the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the whole Page Design
>area would go blank. After I started having problems I uninstalled and
>reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again. I built 3 more
>brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all when
>re-optimized.
>
>When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
>1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
>2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
>3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
>4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was a
>backup folder before NOF crashed.)
>5) Recovery was successful
>6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.
>
>So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home page
>had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text and no
>style. In other words, everything was gone.
>
>I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of the
>new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the site for
>them too. When I asked them for more information what the problem was with
>the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine how to fix my other
>sites so that they would not crash), the response I received was:
>
>"I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we offer a
>perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis - releasing
>fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an Update #4
>in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
>http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes sites
>become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen for
>various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is, on the
>time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you saved the
>site, how often you switched views, etc."
>
>I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon "the
>time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved the
>site, how often you switched views, etc."
>
>Brian
>
>
>

[Carl Kruck]

The new Serif WebPlus X2 is looking pretty awesome too - really easy to use,
WYSIWYG, tons of components and W3C compliant output - check it out at
www.serif.com


"Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
news:fqun5s$dt74@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
> Hey Brian,
> Really sorry for your grief and frustration. We have all been there at
> one
> time or another.
>
> If you don't already own a copy of Dreamweaver CS3, you might still be
> able
> to find ver.8 at a significantly reduced price. Because DW is not
> strictly
> speaking a WYSIWYG html editor (there's really no such thing BTW), you
> must
> have a basic understanding of xhtml or html, javascripts, table structure
> and CSS to take full advantage of it's powerful features. Having said
> that,
> DW does have a Design View pane that shows you your page layout while
> you're
> working. Best of all, DW has much support from 3rd parties who make
> extensions and tutorials for DW. Extensions are a bit like components to
> help you build menus, forms, sprys, and all sorts of other great stuff.
>
> Because DW is so powerful, some people find the learning curve steep at
> first. My advice is to download a free trial of the software and use the
> help (F1) getting started tutorials to see if you like it. Lynda.com is
> another great resource for tutorials.
>
> Three things I do not use in DW: Layers, Templates and Library Items.
> For
> my money, Server Side Includes (SSI) are a much better substitute for
> NOF's
> MasterBorders. I typically have a header.ssi, left navigation.ssi, right
> sidebar.ssi and a footer.ssi on each page. When I need to change my left
> navigation, I only have to republish one file; not an entire site of
> pages.
> This really saves time.
>
> If you decide to take the plunge and start using a web developer tool like
> DW or MS Expression Web or something else, do yourself a favor. Take some
> time to learn standards compliant Xhtml/Html and CSS. This will make your
> transition much easier and rewarding.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> --Nancy O.
> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
> www.alt-web.com
>
>
>
> "bw" <bw@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:fquf0i$cu02@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>> Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
>> begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10
> sites
>> in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)
>>
>> Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that
> have
>> destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently
>> when
> I
>> re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5 pages
> and
>> without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that when I
> clicked
>> the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the whole Page
> Design
>> area would go blank. After I started having problems I uninstalled and
>> reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again. I built 3
>> more
>> brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all when
>> re-optimized.
>>
>> When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
>> 1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
>> 2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
>> 3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
>> 4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was a
>> backup folder before NOF crashed.)
>> 5) Recovery was successful
>> 6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.
>>
>> So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home
> page
>> had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text and
>> no
>> style. In other words, everything was gone.
>>
>> I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of
> the
>> new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the site
> for
>> them too. When I asked them for more information what the problem was
> with
>> the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine how to fix my
> other
>> sites so that they would not crash), the response I received was:
>>
>> "I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we offer
> a
>> perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis -
> releasing
>> fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an Update
>> #4
>> in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
>> http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes
> sites
>> become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen for
>> various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is, on
> the
>> time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you saved
> the
>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>
>> I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon "the
>> time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved
>> the
>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Ritch]

Thanks for that Carl.

Is there a try before you buy?

Have you used it?

Ritch

"Carl Kruck" <designer@metaweboz.com> wrote in message
news:fr1n9h$paj4@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
> The new Serif WebPlus X2 is looking pretty awesome too - really easy to
> use, WYSIWYG, tons of components and W3C compliant output - check it out
> at www.serif.com
>
>
> "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
> news:fqun5s$dt74@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>> Hey Brian,
>> Really sorry for your grief and frustration. We have all been there at
>> one
>> time or another.
>>
>> If you don't already own a copy of Dreamweaver CS3, you might still be
>> able
>> to find ver.8 at a significantly reduced price. Because DW is not
>> strictly
>> speaking a WYSIWYG html editor (there's really no such thing BTW), you
>> must
>> have a basic understanding of xhtml or html, javascripts, table structure
>> and CSS to take full advantage of it's powerful features. Having said
>> that,
>> DW does have a Design View pane that shows you your page layout while
>> you're
>> working. Best of all, DW has much support from 3rd parties who make
>> extensions and tutorials for DW. Extensions are a bit like components to
>> help you build menus, forms, sprys, and all sorts of other great stuff.
>>
>> Because DW is so powerful, some people find the learning curve steep at
>> first. My advice is to download a free trial of the software and use the
>> help (F1) getting started tutorials to see if you like it. Lynda.com is
>> another great resource for tutorials.
>>
>> Three things I do not use in DW: Layers, Templates and Library Items.
>> For
>> my money, Server Side Includes (SSI) are a much better substitute for
>> NOF's
>> MasterBorders. I typically have a header.ssi, left navigation.ssi, right
>> sidebar.ssi and a footer.ssi on each page. When I need to change my left
>> navigation, I only have to republish one file; not an entire site of
>> pages.
>> This really saves time.
>>
>> If you decide to take the plunge and start using a web developer tool
>> like
>> DW or MS Expression Web or something else, do yourself a favor. Take
>> some
>> time to learn standards compliant Xhtml/Html and CSS. This will make
>> your
>> transition much easier and rewarding.
>>
>> Best of luck,
>>
>> --Nancy O.
>> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
>> www.alt-web.com
>>
>>
>>
>> "bw" <bw@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:fquf0i$cu02@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>>> Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
>>> begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10
>> sites
>>> in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)
>>>
>>> Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that
>> have
>>> destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently
>>> when
>> I
>>> re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5 pages
>> and
>>> without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that when I
>> clicked
>>> the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the whole Page
>> Design
>>> area would go blank. After I started having problems I uninstalled and
>>> reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again. I built 3
>>> more
>>> brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all when
>>> re-optimized.
>>>
>>> When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
>>> 1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
>>> 2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
>>> 3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
>>> 4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was
>>> a
>>> backup folder before NOF crashed.)
>>> 5) Recovery was successful
>>> 6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.
>>>
>>> So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home
>> page
>>> had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text and
>>> no
>>> style. In other words, everything was gone.
>>>
>>> I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of
>> the
>>> new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the site
>> for
>>> them too. When I asked them for more information what the problem was
>> with
>>> the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine how to fix my
>> other
>>> sites so that they would not crash), the response I received was:
>>>
>>> "I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we
>>> offer
>> a
>>> perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis -
>> releasing
>>> fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an Update
>>> #4
>>> in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
>>> http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes
>> sites
>>> become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen for
>>> various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is, on
>> the
>>> time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you saved
>> the
>>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>>
>>> I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon
>>> "the
>>> time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved
>>> the
>>> site, how often you switched views, etc."
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>