Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashes for me

[Carol Scheible]

I'm thinking of migrating to Joomla. I think Web 2.0 / CMS are the way to
go, and NO is out. Plus it solves the problem of allowing clients to edit
their own sites.

"Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
news:ftb4vd$3an3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
> <But they did say they were NOT professional web designers. >
>
> It doesn't matter. When a page is broken it looks really bad and site
> visitors are apt to leave and not return. Increase text size on any of
> those example pages, and see what happens.
>
> <but there is something about being able to jump into code to fix or
> change
> something..>
>
> I totally agree. It saves a ton of time too.
>
> In hindsight (always 20/20) I should have spent less time looking at
> half-assed wysiwyg editors in hopes that they would save me time and
> concentrated more on understanding proper use of html and css at the
> www.w3schools.com site. 3 hours spent on tutorials and taking quizzes is
> roughly 1/100th of the time I wasted trying to "fix" problems created by
> so
> called wysiwyg web site products. NOF wasn't the first product I used.
> But
> it was the last. Over the past year-and-a-half, I have rebuilt most of my
> active sites in DW. I understand this isn't for everyone. NOF is fine
> for
> basic sites. But when you need to do more than just average output, where
> being able to control how and where your code appears in the page, it's
> time
> to move away from wysiwyg.
>
> </rant>
>
>
> --Nancy O.
> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
> www.alt-web.com
>
>
> "Richard Wayne Garganta" <richinri@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:ft9pom$r9q1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>> I second Nancy O. But they did say they were NOT professional web
>> designers. My opinion for those outgrowing WYSIWYG because of coding
>> issues - stop looking for another WYSIWYG. Use code editors that have
>> quick views to test the code. In other words - finally learn how to
>> REALLY program websites. I bought Blumentals Webbuilder program and
>> didn't realize it would be the last time I built a site in NOF.
>> NOF has it's merits for quickie things or beginners but there is
>> something about being able to jump into code to fix or change something
>> and actually be able to understand and find what you want to change or
>> fix that will open your eyes.
>>
>> Olivier Daumas wrote:
>> > Where can we find a list of existing WYSIWYG editor, I'm fed up with
>> > NOF
>> > too,
>> > it's too easy to be stuck with NOF !
>> >
>> > "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> > ft8f21$noa1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com...
>> >> <though it uses absolute positioning>
>> >>
>> >> Eewwww! Most wysiwyg editors produce imperfect code but some are
>> >> worse
>> >> than
>> >> others. Absolute / fixed positioning or layers (as it was called in
>> >> Front
>> >> page and pre-CS3 DW) is a dreadful way to build modern web pages. I
> sure
>> >> as
>> >> heck wouldn't want to be limited to that. IMHO you would get better
>> >> results using an html editor and tables.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --Nancy O.
>> >> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
>> >> www.alt-web.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
>> >> news:ft8bb6$mva3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>> >>> I too gave up on NOF 10 a long time ago - too many bugs. I'm
>> >>> not a professional web designer but I have found that
>> >>> WYSIWYG Web Builder 5 http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com is a
>> >>> great program for building small websites. It produces
>> >>> pretty good CSS code and though it uses absolute positioning
>> >>> it does the job quite nicely.
>> >>> The learning curve is very short and the forums are closely
>> >>> monitored by the software's author. Many times new features
>> >>> are added at the request of users in a very short time.
>> >>>
>> >>> I highly recommend it and for $50 it is a great bargain.
>> >>> Check out www.bollington.org.uk and
>> >>> www.visionmozambique.org.uk for examples.
>> >>>
>> >>> Derek Chaplin
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>
>

[robert_b]

I am starting to tinker in the world of opensource CMS...and, it seems in my
e-hoods people are digging Drupal.org over the Joomla thing....but, also
rubyonrails.org

But, CMS might be way OVERKILL for many site applications.


"Carol Scheible" <ncskibum@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ftei16$g232@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
> I'm thinking of migrating to Joomla. I think Web 2.0 / CMS are the way to
> go, and NO is out. Plus it solves the problem of allowing clients to
> edit their own sites.
>
> "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
> news:ftb4vd$3an3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>> <But they did say they were NOT professional web designers. >
>>
>> It doesn't matter. When a page is broken it looks really bad and site
>> visitors are apt to leave and not return. Increase text size on any of
>> those example pages, and see what happens.
>>
>> <but there is something about being able to jump into code to fix or
>> change
>> something..>
>>
>> I totally agree. It saves a ton of time too.
>>
>> In hindsight (always 20/20) I should have spent less time looking at
>> half-assed wysiwyg editors in hopes that they would save me time and
>> concentrated more on understanding proper use of html and css at the
>> www.w3schools.com site. 3 hours spent on tutorials and taking quizzes is
>> roughly 1/100th of the time I wasted trying to "fix" problems created by
>> so
>> called wysiwyg web site products. NOF wasn't the first product I used.
>> But
>> it was the last. Over the past year-and-a-half, I have rebuilt most of
>> my
>> active sites in DW. I understand this isn't for everyone. NOF is fine
>> for
>> basic sites. But when you need to do more than just average output,
>> where
>> being able to control how and where your code appears in the page, it's
>> time
>> to move away from wysiwyg.
>>
>> </rant>
>>
>>
>> --Nancy O.
>> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
>> www.alt-web.com
>>
>>
>> "Richard Wayne Garganta" <richinri@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:ft9pom$r9q1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>>> I second Nancy O. But they did say they were NOT professional web
>>> designers. My opinion for those outgrowing WYSIWYG because of coding
>>> issues - stop looking for another WYSIWYG. Use code editors that have
>>> quick views to test the code. In other words - finally learn how to
>>> REALLY program websites. I bought Blumentals Webbuilder program and
>>> didn't realize it would be the last time I built a site in NOF.
>>> NOF has it's merits for quickie things or beginners but there is
>>> something about being able to jump into code to fix or change something
>>> and actually be able to understand and find what you want to change or
>>> fix that will open your eyes.
>>>
>>> Olivier Daumas wrote:
>>> > Where can we find a list of existing WYSIWYG editor, I'm fed up with
>>> > NOF
>>> > too,
>>> > it's too easy to be stuck with NOF !
>>> >
>>> > "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>> > ft8f21$noa1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com...
>>> >> <though it uses absolute positioning>
>>> >>
>>> >> Eewwww! Most wysiwyg editors produce imperfect code but some are
>>> >> worse
>>> >> than
>>> >> others. Absolute / fixed positioning or layers (as it was called in
>>> >> Front
>>> >> page and pre-CS3 DW) is a dreadful way to build modern web pages. I
>> sure
>>> >> as
>>> >> heck wouldn't want to be limited to that. IMHO you would get better
>>> >> results using an html editor and tables.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --Nancy O.
>>> >> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
>>> >> www.alt-web.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
>>> >> news:ft8bb6$mva3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>>> >>> I too gave up on NOF 10 a long time ago - too many bugs. I'm
>>> >>> not a professional web designer but I have found that
>>> >>> WYSIWYG Web Builder 5 http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com is a
>>> >>> great program for building small websites. It produces
>>> >>> pretty good CSS code and though it uses absolute positioning
>>> >>> it does the job quite nicely.
>>> >>> The learning curve is very short and the forums are closely
>>> >>> monitored by the software's author. Many times new features
>>> >>> are added at the request of users in a very short time.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I highly recommend it and for $50 it is a great bargain.
>>> >>> Check out www.bollington.org.uk and
>>> >>> www.visionmozambique.org.uk for examples.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Derek Chaplin
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[Mike Coombes]

I've tinkered woth Joomla and Drupal and a couple of others; they have a
place, but for most of the sites I build they're overkill by about 1000%
and the end-user needs a certain amount of savvy to use them.

robert_b wrote:
> I am starting to tinker in the world of opensource CMS...and, it seems in my
> e-hoods people are digging Drupal.org over the Joomla thing....but, also
> rubyonrails.org
>
> But, CMS might be way OVERKILL for many site applications.
>
>
> "Carol Scheible" <ncskibum@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ftei16$g232@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>
>> I'm thinking of migrating to Joomla. I think Web 2.0 / CMS are the way to
>> go, and NO is out. Plus it solves the problem of allowing clients to
>> edit their own sites.
>>
>> "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote in message
>> news:ftb4vd$3an3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>>
>>> <But they did say they were NOT professional web designers. >
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter. When a page is broken it looks really bad and site
>>> visitors are apt to leave and not return. Increase text size on any of
>>> those example pages, and see what happens.
>>>
>>> <but there is something about being able to jump into code to fix or
>>> change
>>> something..>
>>>
>>> I totally agree. It saves a ton of time too.
>>>
>>> In hindsight (always 20/20) I should have spent less time looking at
>>> half-assed wysiwyg editors in hopes that they would save me time and
>>> concentrated more on understanding proper use of html and css at the
>>> www.w3schools.com site. 3 hours spent on tutorials and taking quizzes is
>>> roughly 1/100th of the time I wasted trying to "fix" problems created by
>>> so
>>> called wysiwyg web site products. NOF wasn't the first product I used.
>>> But
>>> it was the last. Over the past year-and-a-half, I have rebuilt most of
>>> my
>>> active sites in DW. I understand this isn't for everyone. NOF is fine
>>> for
>>> basic sites. But when you need to do more than just average output,
>>> where
>>> being able to control how and where your code appears in the page, it's
>>> time
>>> to move away from wysiwyg.
>>>
>>> </rant>
>>>
>>>
>>> --Nancy O.
>>> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
>>> www.alt-web.com
>>>
>>>
>>> "Richard Wayne Garganta" <richinri@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ft9pom$r9q1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>>>
>>>> I second Nancy O. But they did say they were NOT professional web
>>>> designers. My opinion for those outgrowing WYSIWYG because of coding
>>>> issues - stop looking for another WYSIWYG. Use code editors that have
>>>> quick views to test the code. In other words - finally learn how to
>>>> REALLY program websites. I bought Blumentals Webbuilder program and
>>>> didn't realize it would be the last time I built a site in NOF.
>>>> NOF has it's merits for quickie things or beginners but there is
>>>> something about being able to jump into code to fix or change something
>>>> and actually be able to understand and find what you want to change or
>>>> fix that will open your eyes.
>>>>
>>>> Olivier Daumas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Where can we find a list of existing WYSIWYG editor, I'm fed up with
>>>>> NOF
>>>>> too,
>>>>> it's too easy to be stuck with NOF !
>>>>>
>>>>> "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>>>> ft8f21$noa1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> <though it uses absolute positioning>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eewwww! Most wysiwyg editors produce imperfect code but some are
>>>>>> worse
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> others. Absolute / fixed positioning or layers (as it was called in
>>>>>> Front
>>>>>> page and pre-CS3 DW) is a dreadful way to build modern web pages. I
>>>>>>
>>> sure
>>>
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> heck wouldn't want to be limited to that. IMHO you would get better
>>>>>> results using an html editor and tables.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Nancy O.
>>>>>> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
>>>>>> www.alt-web.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ft8bb6$mva3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I too gave up on NOF 10 a long time ago - too many bugs. I'm
>>>>>>> not a professional web designer but I have found that
>>>>>>> WYSIWYG Web Builder 5 http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com is a
>>>>>>> great program for building small websites. It produces
>>>>>>> pretty good CSS code and though it uses absolute positioning
>>>>>>> it does the job quite nicely.
>>>>>>> The learning curve is very short and the forums are closely
>>>>>>> monitored by the software's author. Many times new features
>>>>>>> are added at the request of users in a very short time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I highly recommend it and for $50 it is a great bargain.
>>>>>>> Check out www.bollington.org.uk and
>>>>>>> www.visionmozambique.org.uk for examples.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Derek Chaplin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>