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Thread: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashes for me

  1. #21
    Allison Moore
    Guest

    Default Re: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashesfor me


    > I just wondered if there was a problem
    > using the program user sites folder, because I'v never encounted one anyway.


    FWIW, I never store data on the same partition as my applications. In
    fact, I even segregate applications other than the operating system and
    some utilities on yet another partition. For one thing, it's easier to
    find stuff. For another, much more importantly, it has saved me on
    several occasions when the OS has gotten corrupted or the C: partition
    has been damaged physically or otherwise. In every instance, I've been
    able to pull the data from its partition (and yes, that can be useful,
    even with good backups). And even though I've had to reinstall the apps,
    I've still had access to things like configuration files that would take
    me some time and trouble to replace.

    Allison



  2. #22
    Roger Hughes
    Guest

    Default Re: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashes for me

    Hi Brian
    I too have been using NO for years, since when they were in California, but
    I reckon I now must have a love hate relationship with it. If it was not for
    the great people on this forum I would have quit years ago, because Webpro
    help is miles too slow. I entirely agree with your first post, so did you
    find a similar/suitable alternative yet?

    "bw" <bw@nospam.com> wrote in message
    news:fquf0i$cu02@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    > Goodbye to NOF 10. I've been using NetObjects for 3 years now and have
    > begun the search for a more stable alternative. (Recreating my NOF 10
    > sites in NOF 9 might be an option, but any suggestions would be welcome.)
    >
    > Lately my experience with NOF is that it has too many serious bugs that
    > have destroyed several of my sites. NOF crashed 3 of my websites recently
    > when I re-optimized them. These were relatively small sites with 3 to 5
    > pages and without any flash, forms, etc. And I had another site that
    > when I clicked the Publish button, the FTP box would not display and the
    > whole Page Design area would go blank. After I started having problems I
    > uninstalled and reinstalled NOF 10 and then updated it to update #3 again.
    > I built 3 more brand new test sites and NOF crashed those 3 sites too--all
    > when re-optimized.
    >
    > When I re-optimized I got the following error messages:
    > 1) NOF has encountered a problem and needs to close.
    > 2) NOF has detected an unstable file and will now recover your site.
    > 3) The current SiteStyle has been deleted. Please set a new Sitestyle.
    > 4) The Automatic Backup folder for this file doesn't exist. (There was a
    > backup folder before NOF crashed.)
    > 5) Recovery was successful
    > 6) Damaged objects have been found on the page and have been deleted.
    >
    > So when I opened the "recovered" site, all of my pages except the Home
    > page had been deleted and the Home page was completly blank with no text
    > and no style. In other words, everything was gone.
    >
    > I submitted a ticket to Website Pros and sent them a template of one of
    > the new sites I created. Website Pros said that NetObjects crashed the
    > site for them too. When I asked them for more information what the
    > problem was with the site and why the site crashed (so I could determine
    > how to fix my other sites so that they would not crash), the response I
    > received was:
    >
    > "I am not sure I can answer your questions; we cannot state that we offer
    > a perfect web site builder, as we improve it on a continuous basis -
    > releasing fixes, updates, that solve issues - speaking of which we have an
    > Update #4 in the pre-release mode, if you want to try it:
    > http://netobjects.com/html/pre-release.html. Unfortunately sometimes
    > sites become corrupted, or site sections (pages/objects) - this can happen
    > for various reasons, depending on the site structure, on how large it is,
    > on the time you spent working continuously on the site, on how often you
    > saved the site, how often you switched views, etc."
    >
    > I can't continue to use a product that can corrupt a site based upon "the
    > time you spent working continously on the site, on how often you saved the
    > site, how often you switched views, etc."
    >
    > Brian
    >
    >
    >
    >




  3. #23
    user@domain.invalid
    Guest

    Default Re: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashesfor me

    I too gave up on NOF 10 a long time ago - too many bugs. I'm
    not a professional web designer but I have found that
    WYSIWYG Web Builder 5 http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com is a
    great program for building small websites. It produces
    pretty good CSS code and though it uses absolute positioning
    it does the job quite nicely.
    The learning curve is very short and the forums are closely
    monitored by the software's author. Many times new features
    are added at the request of users in a very short time.

    I highly recommend it and for $50 it is a great bargain.
    Check out www.bollington.org.uk and
    www.visionmozambique.org.uk for examples.

    Derek Chaplin

  4. #24
    Nancy O
    Guest

    Default Re: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashes for me

    <though it uses absolute positioning>

    Eewwww! Most wysiwyg editors produce imperfect code but some are worse than
    others. Absolute / fixed positioning or layers (as it was called in Front
    page and pre-CS3 DW) is a dreadful way to build modern web pages. I sure as
    heck wouldn't want to be limited to that. IMHO you would get better
    results using an html editor and tables.


    --Nancy O.
    Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    www.alt-web.com


    <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
    news:ft8bb6$mva3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    > I too gave up on NOF 10 a long time ago - too many bugs. I'm
    > not a professional web designer but I have found that
    > WYSIWYG Web Builder 5 http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com is a
    > great program for building small websites. It produces
    > pretty good CSS code and though it uses absolute positioning
    > it does the job quite nicely.
    > The learning curve is very short and the forums are closely
    > monitored by the software's author. Many times new features
    > are added at the request of users in a very short time.
    >
    > I highly recommend it and for $50 it is a great bargain.
    > Check out www.bollington.org.uk and
    > www.visionmozambique.org.uk for examples.
    >
    > Derek Chaplin




  5. #25
    Olivier Daumas
    Guest

    Default Re: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashes for me

    Where can we find a list of existing WYSIWYG editor, I'm fed up with NOF
    too,
    it's too easy to be stuck with NOF !

    "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
    ft8f21$noa1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com...
    > <though it uses absolute positioning>
    >
    > Eewwww! Most wysiwyg editors produce imperfect code but some are worse
    > than
    > others. Absolute / fixed positioning or layers (as it was called in
    > Front
    > page and pre-CS3 DW) is a dreadful way to build modern web pages. I sure
    > as
    > heck wouldn't want to be limited to that. IMHO you would get better
    > results using an html editor and tables.
    >
    >
    > --Nancy O.
    > Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    > www.alt-web.com
    >
    >
    > <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
    > news:ft8bb6$mva3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    >> I too gave up on NOF 10 a long time ago - too many bugs. I'm
    >> not a professional web designer but I have found that
    >> WYSIWYG Web Builder 5 http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com is a
    >> great program for building small websites. It produces
    >> pretty good CSS code and though it uses absolute positioning
    >> it does the job quite nicely.
    >> The learning curve is very short and the forums are closely
    >> monitored by the software's author. Many times new features
    >> are added at the request of users in a very short time.
    >>
    >> I highly recommend it and for $50 it is a great bargain.
    >> Check out www.bollington.org.uk and
    >> www.visionmozambique.org.uk for examples.
    >>
    >> Derek Chaplin

    >
    >




  6. #26
    Richard Wayne Garganta
    Guest

    Default Re: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashesfor me

    I second Nancy O. But they did say they were NOT professional web
    designers. My opinion for those outgrowing WYSIWYG because of coding
    issues - stop looking for another WYSIWYG. Use code editors that have
    quick views to test the code. In other words - finally learn how to
    REALLY program websites. I bought Blumentals Webbuilder program and
    didn't realize it would be the last time I built a site in NOF.
    NOF has it's merits for quickie things or beginners but there is
    something about being able to jump into code to fix or change something
    and actually be able to understand and find what you want to change or
    fix that will open your eyes.

    Olivier Daumas wrote:
    > Where can we find a list of existing WYSIWYG editor, I'm fed up with NOF
    > too,
    > it's too easy to be stuck with NOF !
    >
    > "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
    > ft8f21$noa1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com...
    >> <though it uses absolute positioning>
    >>
    >> Eewwww! Most wysiwyg editors produce imperfect code but some are worse
    >> than
    >> others. Absolute / fixed positioning or layers (as it was called in
    >> Front
    >> page and pre-CS3 DW) is a dreadful way to build modern web pages. I sure
    >> as
    >> heck wouldn't want to be limited to that. IMHO you would get better
    >> results using an html editor and tables.
    >>
    >>
    >> --Nancy O.
    >> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    >> www.alt-web.com
    >>
    >>
    >> <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
    >> news:ft8bb6$mva3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    >>> I too gave up on NOF 10 a long time ago - too many bugs. I'm
    >>> not a professional web designer but I have found that
    >>> WYSIWYG Web Builder 5 http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com is a
    >>> great program for building small websites. It produces
    >>> pretty good CSS code and though it uses absolute positioning
    >>> it does the job quite nicely.
    >>> The learning curve is very short and the forums are closely
    >>> monitored by the software's author. Many times new features
    >>> are added at the request of users in a very short time.
    >>>
    >>> I highly recommend it and for $50 it is a great bargain.
    >>> Check out www.bollington.org.uk and
    >>> www.visionmozambique.org.uk for examples.
    >>>
    >>> Derek Chaplin

    >>

    >
    >


  7. #27
    Olivier Daumas
    Guest

    Default Re: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashes for me

    I don't want to stop using WYSIWYG tool, because they are powerfull tools,
    as NOF, to make visualy and quickly html pages.
    But, as soon as we need to insert advanced web programmation, it works
    bizarrely.



    "Richard Wayne Garganta" <richinri@cox.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
    ft9pom$r9q1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com...
    >I second Nancy O. But they did say they were NOT professional web
    >designers. My opinion for those outgrowing WYSIWYG because of coding
    >issues - stop looking for another WYSIWYG. Use code editors that have
    >quick views to test the code. In other words - finally learn how to REALLY
    >program websites. I bought Blumentals Webbuilder program and didn't
    >realize it would be the last time I built a site in NOF.
    > NOF has it's merits for quickie things or beginners but there is something
    > about being able to jump into code to fix or change something and actually
    > be able to understand and find what you want to change or fix that will
    > open your eyes.
    >
    > Olivier Daumas wrote:
    >> Where can we find a list of existing WYSIWYG editor, I'm fed up with NOF
    >> too,
    >> it's too easy to be stuck with NOF !
    >>
    >> "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
    >> ft8f21$noa1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com...
    >>> <though it uses absolute positioning>
    >>>
    >>> Eewwww! Most wysiwyg editors produce imperfect code but some are worse
    >>> than
    >>> others. Absolute / fixed positioning or layers (as it was called in
    >>> Front
    >>> page and pre-CS3 DW) is a dreadful way to build modern web pages. I
    >>> sure as
    >>> heck wouldn't want to be limited to that. IMHO you would get better
    >>> results using an html editor and tables.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> --Nancy O.
    >>> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    >>> www.alt-web.com
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
    >>> news:ft8bb6$mva3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    >>>> I too gave up on NOF 10 a long time ago - too many bugs. I'm
    >>>> not a professional web designer but I have found that
    >>>> WYSIWYG Web Builder 5 http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com is a
    >>>> great program for building small websites. It produces
    >>>> pretty good CSS code and though it uses absolute positioning
    >>>> it does the job quite nicely.
    >>>> The learning curve is very short and the forums are closely
    >>>> monitored by the software's author. Many times new features
    >>>> are added at the request of users in a very short time.
    >>>>
    >>>> I highly recommend it and for $50 it is a great bargain.
    >>>> Check out www.bollington.org.uk and
    >>>> www.visionmozambique.org.uk for examples.
    >>>>
    >>>> Derek Chaplin
    >>>

    >>



  8. #28
    Richard Wayne Garganta
    Guest

    Default Re: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashesfor me

    Dynamic HTML Editor from Hexagora is one of the most unique WYSIWYG
    editors I have found - simple but with depth for MANY different
    programming scenarios. If you take one night to read the help file -
    you will be amazed what you can do with it. The guy who designed this
    program is VERY innovative. And the price is right.


    Olivier Daumas wrote:
    > I don't want to stop using WYSIWYG tool, because they are powerfull tools,
    > as NOF, to make visualy and quickly html pages.
    > But, as soon as we need to insert advanced web programmation, it works
    > bizarrely.
    >
    >
    >
    > "Richard Wayne Garganta" <richinri@cox.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
    > ft9pom$r9q1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com...
    >> I second Nancy O. But they did say they were NOT professional web
    >> designers. My opinion for those outgrowing WYSIWYG because of coding
    >> issues - stop looking for another WYSIWYG. Use code editors that have
    >> quick views to test the code. In other words - finally learn how to REALLY
    >> program websites. I bought Blumentals Webbuilder program and didn't
    >> realize it would be the last time I built a site in NOF.
    >> NOF has it's merits for quickie things or beginners but there is something
    >> about being able to jump into code to fix or change something and actually
    >> be able to understand and find what you want to change or fix that will
    >> open your eyes.
    >>
    >> Olivier Daumas wrote:
    >>> Where can we find a list of existing WYSIWYG editor, I'm fed up with NOF
    >>> too,
    >>> it's too easy to be stuck with NOF !
    >>>
    >>> "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
    >>> ft8f21$noa1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com...
    >>>> <though it uses absolute positioning>
    >>>>
    >>>> Eewwww! Most wysiwyg editors produce imperfect code but some are worse
    >>>> than
    >>>> others. Absolute / fixed positioning or layers (as it was called in
    >>>> Front
    >>>> page and pre-CS3 DW) is a dreadful way to build modern web pages. I
    >>>> sure as
    >>>> heck wouldn't want to be limited to that. IMHO you would get better
    >>>> results using an html editor and tables.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> --Nancy O.
    >>>> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    >>>> www.alt-web.com
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
    >>>> news:ft8bb6$mva3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    >>>>> I too gave up on NOF 10 a long time ago - too many bugs. I'm
    >>>>> not a professional web designer but I have found that
    >>>>> WYSIWYG Web Builder 5 http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com is a
    >>>>> great program for building small websites. It produces
    >>>>> pretty good CSS code and though it uses absolute positioning
    >>>>> it does the job quite nicely.
    >>>>> The learning curve is very short and the forums are closely
    >>>>> monitored by the software's author. Many times new features
    >>>>> are added at the request of users in a very short time.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I highly recommend it and for $50 it is a great bargain.
    >>>>> Check out www.bollington.org.uk and
    >>>>> www.visionmozambique.org.uk for examples.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Derek Chaplin

    >


  9. #29
    Olivier Daumas
    Guest

    Default Re: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashes for me

    Thank you, I'll have a look.



  10. #30
    Nancy O
    Guest

    Default Re: Farewell NetObjects 10 - there are too many bugs and crashes for me

    <But they did say they were NOT professional web designers. >

    It doesn't matter. When a page is broken it looks really bad and site
    visitors are apt to leave and not return. Increase text size on any of
    those example pages, and see what happens.

    <but there is something about being able to jump into code to fix or change
    something..>

    I totally agree. It saves a ton of time too.

    In hindsight (always 20/20) I should have spent less time looking at
    half-assed wysiwyg editors in hopes that they would save me time and
    concentrated more on understanding proper use of html and css at the
    www.w3schools.com site. 3 hours spent on tutorials and taking quizzes is
    roughly 1/100th of the time I wasted trying to "fix" problems created by so
    called wysiwyg web site products. NOF wasn't the first product I used. But
    it was the last. Over the past year-and-a-half, I have rebuilt most of my
    active sites in DW. I understand this isn't for everyone. NOF is fine for
    basic sites. But when you need to do more than just average output, where
    being able to control how and where your code appears in the page, it's time
    to move away from wysiwyg.

    </rant>


    --Nancy O.
    Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    www.alt-web.com


    "Richard Wayne Garganta" <richinri@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:ft9pom$r9q1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    > I second Nancy O. But they did say they were NOT professional web
    > designers. My opinion for those outgrowing WYSIWYG because of coding
    > issues - stop looking for another WYSIWYG. Use code editors that have
    > quick views to test the code. In other words - finally learn how to
    > REALLY program websites. I bought Blumentals Webbuilder program and
    > didn't realize it would be the last time I built a site in NOF.
    > NOF has it's merits for quickie things or beginners but there is
    > something about being able to jump into code to fix or change something
    > and actually be able to understand and find what you want to change or
    > fix that will open your eyes.
    >
    > Olivier Daumas wrote:
    > > Where can we find a list of existing WYSIWYG editor, I'm fed up with NOF
    > > too,
    > > it's too easy to be stuck with NOF !
    > >
    > > "Nancy O" <nancyoshea1@NOSPAMatt.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
    > > ft8f21$noa1@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com...
    > >> <though it uses absolute positioning>
    > >>
    > >> Eewwww! Most wysiwyg editors produce imperfect code but some are worse
    > >> than
    > >> others. Absolute / fixed positioning or layers (as it was called in
    > >> Front
    > >> page and pre-CS3 DW) is a dreadful way to build modern web pages. I

    sure
    > >> as
    > >> heck wouldn't want to be limited to that. IMHO you would get better
    > >> results using an html editor and tables.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> --Nancy O.
    > >> Alt-Web Design & Publishing
    > >> www.alt-web.com
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
    > >> news:ft8bb6$mva3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
    > >>> I too gave up on NOF 10 a long time ago - too many bugs. I'm
    > >>> not a professional web designer but I have found that
    > >>> WYSIWYG Web Builder 5 http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com is a
    > >>> great program for building small websites. It produces
    > >>> pretty good CSS code and though it uses absolute positioning
    > >>> it does the job quite nicely.
    > >>> The learning curve is very short and the forums are closely
    > >>> monitored by the software's author. Many times new features
    > >>> are added at the request of users in a very short time.
    > >>>
    > >>> I highly recommend it and for $50 it is a great bargain.
    > >>> Check out www.bollington.org.uk and
    > >>> www.visionmozambique.org.uk for examples.
    > >>>
    > >>> Derek Chaplin
    > >>

    > >
    > >




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