OT: great deal on a good graphics program

[Ritch]

Like you Alison, I am a recent convert to Xara Xtreme. I am no artist or
photographer and although I have PS, PI and PSP, I have always found that I
struggled to use them effectively. I have found that with each of them I
spent long hours getting to grips with their interfaces and features to get
the effects that I wanted. Because I used them relatively rarely, I would
need to go back through the learning curve the next time I used them. PI
less so than PS and PSP.

Although I have used XARA products for a long time, I had never looked at
Xtreme. Since I obtained a copy I have not looked at the others. The
interface is truly intuitive. It reminds me of the leap forward in drawing
that Visio was so many years ago. I just love the fact that I don't need to
mess around with a clutter of layers.

As a fair priced, general graphics tool for most web design folk I would
urge that they check out Xara Xtreme.

Ritch



"Allison Moore" <dumpALLISONlowercase@forgetMETAthisHEALTHand.CO M> wrote in
message news:A921.1137205204.503@gfwebforum.com...
>> ULead Smart Saver (that's ULead's top graphics program, right?)
> I believe you're thinking about PhotoImpact. AFAIK, SmartSaver is a bitmap
> optimizer. I quit using it when I realized that Xara was doing a much
> better job optimizing. In fact, during the current cosmetic update on my
> company's website, I used Xara to readjust all the images I'd previously
> "optimized" with SmartSaver. Now, they're not only brighter, you can
> actually see detail that was just murk before. AIR, the biggest increase
> in size was still under 2k. Mostly, any increases were a lot less than 1k.
>
>> PSP... it's also a 'real time' vector graphics program
>
> I've tried and tried to work with PSP's vector tools. I truly hate them.
> By comparison to Xara in particular, they're seriously klunky and
> difficult to use.
>
>> Several of the things I truly value in PSP 9 is how easy it is to record
>> scripts, to assign hot-keys, and view the history of what you've done
>> with an image
>
> In Xara Xtreme, there's no scripting and you can't assign custom hotkeys.
> (Scripting may come via the new open-source plug-in route at some point,
> but I don't recall anyone specifically talking about working on it.) OTOH,
> Xtreme is so fast and the interface is so easy to use that you may not
> miss either one as much as you think. Because Xara is vector-oriented, you
> can directly change almost anything at any time because under most
> circumstances everything remains editable. (There are a few exceptions,
> such as converting text to curves.)
>
> There is a history within the Live Effects function, and I think you can
> independently edit effects within that history, but I haven't needed to do
> that. BTW, Live Effects allows you to apply -- to vectors -- many filters
> that are designed for bitmaps. Photoshop filters (older ones; the more
> recent formats are still proprietary), KPT-6, SuperBladePro, among
> others... In some cases, there's some conversion to bitmap to achieve the
> effect, but I believe it's still editable. Personally, I'm much happier
> using BladePro with Xara in the vector environment than I ever was when
> using it in PSP.
>
> BTW, although XPE, Xara's photo editor, is not as fully featured as PSP
> (nor is it intended to be), I have often found it to be more useful. (Bear
> in mind that I'm not editing on a professional level that's intended for
> print.) One amazing aspect of XPE is that the editing isn't destructive.
> The original image remains intact, even if you copy the edited photo into
> another file. (If you "create a bitmap copy", it's flattened, but then
> that's the point of that function.) And somehow, the file size doesn't
> swell.
>
> Xtreme comes with a lot of movies that make it easy to learn. The "boxed"
> version includes a CD full of tutorials. (They're available in the
> XaraXone even if you don't go for the box. The Xone is a great resource
> anyway, with additional workbooks, galleries and shareware Xara
> utilities.) There's also an active and supportive newsgroup (like this
> one), so there's lots of help available.
>
> One of the best things about Xara is that it's a great joy to use.
> (Caution: it is _seriously_ addictive.<g>)
>
> Allison
>
>

[LWD]

Thanks, Mark - will try that out

L.

[William Patterson]

I have used PSP since it's beginning and everything including the album
software are great. I used PS but found I could get the job done faster and
with less frustration with PSP and the new Xpro is just as great and at a
resonable price.
I also use Xara for building everything from banners to buttons. I just
built a site for a doctor using the themes and combing the graphics it
produced with the style sheets in NOF and got just what I wanted. The nice
thing about Xara is that it uses vector graphics so you can go back to your
projects and change button sizes or re-do a banner and it all stays nice and
clean as you create the new changes and produces the jpg or gif that you
need. I find it is like having Adobe Illustrator and someone who designs
graphics at your disposal. Very nice product for us that are one man shops.


"Karl Strieby" <karldotstrieby@KDashCDashP.com> wrote in message
news:A921.1137121353.491@gfwebforum.com...
>I know many NOF users have favourite graphics editing tools, but many do
>not have anything beyond Windows "Paint" and the limited graphics handling
>built into NOF.
>
> To fill that vacuum, I am passing on a promotional e-mail from Corel,
> about PaintShop Pro, which I paste below:
>
> =========================
> Rebranding Letter
>
> Dear Karl,
>
> My name is Doug Meisner and I am the Senior Product Manager of Corel Paint
> Shop Pro. I want to thank you for being one of the "early adopters" of
> Paint Shop Pro (PSP) in general - and of Corel Paint Shop Pro X in
> particular. Although digital photography is only now reaching its peak in
> the mass market, you are obviously someone who is ahead of the curve.
>
> As you have discovered by now, we have made some neat improvements to the
> program. Things like the Object Remover, B&W and infrared conversion
> filters, Makeover Tools, Smart Photo Fix, 16 bit support, improved browser
> and layer palettes, etc.
>
> One of the features we are most proud of is the new Learning Center. While
> more advanced users like you may not have the need for such a tool, we
> have found that it really opens up the power of PSP to a much wider
> audience of users. Unlike the "Help" found in some other programs (hello
> Photoshop!) or the wizards that lock you into a prescribed workflow (can
> you hear me Microsoft?) the Learning Center opens up the power of PSP
> without constraining the user.
>
> In the last couple of months I have had a great time introducing some of
> my friends and acquaintances to this easy-to-use power. I hope you are
> interested in sharing this as well - perhaps some of your friends have
> just got a fancy new camera for the holidays and want to do more with
> their photos?
>
> Please feel free to direct your friends to the link below which will allow
> them to purchase PSP for only $69 which is $60 off the suggested retail
> price! This is a hidden landing page not accessible to folks via
> Corel.com - the only way your friends can get to it is through this link:
>
> http://www.corel.com/hidoffer210
>
> This offer expires on January 31, 2006. Hopefully you will be successful
> in adding some more people to the PSP gang - and the Learning Center will
> keep them from phoning you too often for advice!
>
> Just for spreading the news, we are pleased to give you a 15% discount off
> any purchase made at Corel's e-store between now and Feb. 28, 2006. (Note
> that this discount cannot be used in conjunction with the special Paint
> Shop Pro X offer at $69.)
>
> Simply enter this code in all upper case letters box in the promotion code
> box at checkout in the Corel e-store shopping cart: SECRTCOP597
>
> Glad to have you aboard as a Paint Shop Pro customer! Thanks again.
>
>
> Doug Meisner
> Senior Product Manager
> ===============
>
> Now, nobody can say I don't ever have anything nice to say...:-)
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Karl Strieby
>
> http://www.k-c-p.com/
> See the Contact Us page
>
>

[BigGreenFurryThing]

Don't forget that PS started on Apples. I remember using it in a Lisa or
possibly an Apple II: it was a long time ago. PS is still one of the killer
apps on the Mac platform. There is a huge Mac user base for PS amongst
designers and print houses certainly in the UK. There's a fair few
photographers using Mac's too hence the Mac-only shareware I keep coming
across and looking at enviously. Adobe therefore is very Mac focussed unlike
many other software companies.

As I recall, LightRoom started as a Macromedia initiative and, again, they
were always very much an Apple product company. Early Fireworks on a PC
always felt like a Mac port. However, I reckon the appearence of LightRoom
on the Mac first is to fend off competition from Apples's Aperture
www.apple.com/aperture/ which is looking to be a serious threat. Aperture's
one gorgeous looking app. Wonder how much Mac mini's are going for.....?
--
Mark
www.BigGreenFurryThings.com


"LWD" <NO**SPAM!!***lucdix**@**jamDOTrrDOTcom> wrote in message
news:dq9pnp$bof2@news01.netobjects.com...
>I have Acrylic on my machine, am just about to download it to another, so
> it's good to hear you are pleased with it.
>
> I mention below that I just received a newsletter (The Digital Photography
> Review, I believe) mentioning LightRoom from Adobe, a product apparently
> focused specifically on digital photography.
>
> To my great surprise, when I tried to download the beta just now I
> discovered that so far it is only available for Macs. Frankly, that
> doesn't
> make a lot of sense to me.
>
> It may be true that many graphic artists use Macs, but far more digital
> photographers use XP than Macs and that's the market Adobe is aiming for
> with the product. A Windows version is, apparently, in the works.
>
>

[LWD]

Hi, Mark,

Well, the Mac versus PC argument always reminds me of the Nikon versus Canon
argument, but the fact is that Mac market share is nowhere near Windows
market share so I'm surprised at the decision. I used to work right down
the road from both Apple and Adobe in Silicon Valley, got to know many
people who worked at both companies.

Since I'm downloading files anyway to a new computer, I thought, hmmm, as
long as I'm looking at ULead and Xara, I might as well look at Fireworks, so
I may end up doing the comparison table I'd prefer to read after all.

What's been your experience with Fireworks?

L.

[Mark Reed]

"BigGreenFurryThing" <admin@BigGreenFurryThing.com> wrote in
news:dq9p90$bof1@news01.netobjects.com:

> Many thanks for the quick reply. Like you, digital photography is
> important to me. Currently I use BreezeBrowser (www.breezesys.com) for
> RAW conversion, sorting, renaming, prrofs, etc. then jump to CS for
> editing, compositing, etc.
>
> I've had Acrylic for a over a month now and despite its lack of import
> functiohnality, no apparent support for PS plugins and the limited
> toolset I'm still impressed. Very fast bitmap painting tools and
> instant vector drawing with good tablet support. The interface is
> simple and clean and reasonably obvious to use although I suspect that
> the MS insterface have not been let loose on this yet. I still haven't
> quite got to grips with slicing and the beta help file is sparse. One
> other annoyance is the preview when opening doesn't supportTIF's yet
> but this is still in beta.
>
> Personally I reckon this is the one to watch especially as it will
> integrate with Microsoft's forthcoming web and interface building
> tools though it might be worth wating for the second or even third
> version before dumping your current bitmap editor.

just a side note - PSP has partnered with Pixelmantec to offer
RawShooter with PSP for total RAW power.



--
Mark M. Reed (mreed@fusionmagic.com)
FusionMagic - building better designs...pixel by pixel

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[LWD]

I have Acrylic on my machine, am just about to download it to another, so
it's good to hear you are pleased with it.

I mention below that I just received a newsletter (The Digital Photography
Review, I believe) mentioning LightRoom from Adobe, a product apparently
focused specifically on digital photography.

To my great surprise, when I tried to download the beta just now I
discovered that so far it is only available for Macs. Frankly, that doesn't
make a lot of sense to me.

It may be true that many graphic artists use Macs, but far more digital
photographers use XP than Macs and that's the market Adobe is aiming for
with the product. A Windows version is, apparently, in the works.

[LWD]

I just found a page which gives overviews of how Adobe LightRoom will work:

It's one way to get up to speed on it until there's a Windows version.

http://www.layersmagazine.com/lightroom/video.php

[BigGreenFurryThing]

With Adobe and the Mac I don't think it' so much market share as Adobe's Mac
mindset and the market perception that somehow Mac's are *the* creative
tool. Therefore if it's been ported from the Mac to Windows, it must be
good. I've met many creative types who actually reason like that. Seriously.

But, as I said, it's Apple's Aperture that's got Adobe worried. Aperture and
a basic Mac mini add up to *very* powerful tool and together cost far less
than a good lens. Heck, even I'm considering it and I haven't used an Apple
PC in anger for over a decade. The economies of workflow alone could cost
justify the outlay.

For the year I used it, I loved Fireworks. Rather than a print based layers
model of PS and the truly awful ImageReady, Fireworks uses an object model
which parallels that of a web page: lots of things on the same plane. In
Firework you can select, drag and manipulate parts of the image intuitively
without having to select a layer first. With a little interface tweaking,
the relevant tools appropriate for the selected object appear automatically.
This might not seem much but use Fireworks for a while and you'll realise
how much of a pain PS is for web graphics.

The major advantage of Fireworks is the seemless roundtrip editing between
Macromaedia apps. As I dropped Studio two years and Fireworks went with it.
I've been hunting (and hoping) for an integrated code / graphics suite ever
since then hence my interest in Microsoft's forthcoming Expressions.

Mind you, I still miss Deluxe Paint and Photon Paint on the Amiga.

--
Mark
www.BigGreenFurryThings.com


"LWD" <NO**SPAM!!***lucdix**@**jamDOTrrDOTcom> wrote in message
news:dq9s8t$bo75@news01.netobjects.com...
> Hi, Mark,
>
> Well, the Mac versus PC argument always reminds me of the Nikon versus
> Canon
> argument, but the fact is that Mac market share is nowhere near Windows
> market share so I'm surprised at the decision. I used to work right down
> the road from both Apple and Adobe in Silicon Valley, got to know many
> people who worked at both companies.
>
> Since I'm downloading files anyway to a new computer, I thought, hmmm, as
> long as I'm looking at ULead and Xara, I might as well look at Fireworks,
> so
> I may end up doing the comparison table I'd prefer to read after all.
>
> What's been your experience with Fireworks?
>
> L.
>
>

[BigGreenFurryThing]

Thanks for the link.

Can't say that LighRoom impresses me much. Once again it's *print* based
('watermarks', 'contact sheets', 'pdf') with a quick nod to the web
('slideshow'). For me, and many others I know, this misses the fundamentl
real world point: it processing that matters. Aperture is *process* based.
Check out the movies on Apple's site: they're all about moving the image
along the workflow.

This is of course just a first impression on a product in beta. I'm hoping
that Adobe will show off Lightroom at the UK's Focus on Imaging event in
late Feb.
--
Mark
www.BigGreenFurryThings.com


"LWD" <NO**SPAM!!***lucdix**@**jamDOTrrDOTcom> wrote in message
news:dqa4st$bof9@news01.netobjects.com...
>I just found a page which gives overviews of how Adobe LightRoom will work:
>
> It's one way to get up to speed on it until there's a Windows version.
>
> http://www.layersmagazine.com/lightroom/video.php
>
>
>