Tables - What I see is not what I get

[Nancy O]

I have found in NOF 8 anyway, that it doesn't like to be "told" anything
about tables. It imparts arbitrary values (pixels mostly) and then won't
let me change them. In one case I could change a column width by only 1
pixel at a time which was outrageously small. So I deleted it and tried
again. Then it wouldn't apply percentages. I sort of got fed up and went on
to other things. Photogallery thumbnails, for example always come out
skewed for me because of the table behavior around the images. Short of
hand coding, I'm almost ready to go back to MX at least for tables. It
wasn't perfect, but it worked a lot better than 8. Sort of wish I'd
upgraded to 7.5.

--Nancy



"LBA" <webdesigns@no2spamabramsnet.com> wrote in message
news:e0732i$h092@news01.netobjects.com...
> Yes, erratic table behavior continues to be very much a mystery. I've
> sometimes found that, contrary to logic (mine, at least) it works best
> if I change heights to Percentage. Have you tried that?
>
> Laurence
>
> Nancy O wrote:
>
> >I had several tables that worked perfectly in NOF MX then went crazy when
I
> >imported them into NOF8. Whatever WSP did between 7.5 and 8 distorted
my
> >tables big time causing me untold grief. Sorry to hear the same also
> >applies to NOF9. Given that NOF is still a table-based web authoring
> >program, you would think they'd get this part of the picture right.
> >
> >--Nancy
> >
> >
> >"Ken" <trimdoner@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:e07105$gv03@news01.netobjects.com...
> >> I've raised this point a few time, and never a response. I also pointed
> >out
> >> that NOF 9 seemed to produce an extra background table which distorted
> >> everything - e.g perfect template from 7.5, open in 9= rubbish.
> >>
> >> I can appreciate that adding components to pages which cause table
widths
> >to
> >> change is a possibilty, but a perfect 7.5 Template *should* produce a
> >> perfect NOF 9 site!!
> >>
> >> Sites done in 7.5 which stretch to browser width (table-based,
obviously)
> >go
> >> completely haywire in 9.
> >> I've fiddled and rest table widths (px, auto, %) and just when it all
fits
> >> exactly, NOF does something to it and gaps appear.
> >>
> >> "Garret Mott" <garret_atsign_automatesoftware_dot_com> wrote in message
> >> news:e07011$h091@news01.netobjects.com...
> >> > Yoobet Janice -
> >> >
> >> > Hmmm... I bet something has changed.
> >> >
> >> > If you take a look at the html produced by NOF9, it produces
something
> >> like
> >> > this (I took this from one of my sites produced with NOF9):
> >> >
> >> > <table id="Table20" border=0 cellspacing=2 cellpadding=2 width="100%"
> >> > height=867>
> >> >
> >> > See the width="100%"? This table (in NOF9) has both width & height
set
> >to
> >> > Pixels. A pic of the Table Properties is attached. Seems as though
the
> >> > height got set correctly while the width didn't. In other words, the
> >same
> >> > kind of problem that's happening for you.
> >> >
> >> > Personally, I see this as a "bug". Hate to use that word, but if a
> >person
> >> > chooses a particular width or height, NOF should respect that.
> >> >
> >> > Maybe someone from NOF could comment?
> >> >
> >> > Garret Mott
> >> >
> >> > Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
> >> > Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >

[LBA]

I totally agree with your comments, Nancy, after experiencing that same
photo gallery thumbnail problem all week... and struggling with
obstinate tables since 8.0.

Laurence



Nancy O wrote:

>I have found in NOF 8 anyway, that it doesn't like to be "told" anything
>about tables. It imparts arbitrary values (pixels mostly) and then won't
>let me change them. In one case I could change a column width by only 1
>pixel at a time which was outrageously small. So I deleted it and tried
>again. Then it wouldn't apply percentages. I sort of got fed up and went on
>to other things. Photogallery thumbnails, for example always come out
>skewed for me because of the table behavior around the images. Short of
>hand coding, I'm almost ready to go back to MX at least for tables. It
>wasn't perfect, but it worked a lot better than 8. Sort of wish I'd
>upgraded to 7.5.
>
>--Nancy
>
>
>
>"LBA" <webdesigns@no2spamabramsnet.com> wrote in message
>news:e0732i$h092@news01.netobjects.com...
>> Yes, erratic table behavior continues to be very much a mystery. I've
>> sometimes found that, contrary to logic (mine, at least) it works best
>> if I change heights to Percentage. Have you tried that?
>>
>> Laurence
>>
>> Nancy O wrote:
>>
>> >I had several tables that worked perfectly in NOF MX then went crazy when
>I
>> >imported them into NOF8. Whatever WSP did between 7.5 and 8 distorted
>my
>> >tables big time causing me untold grief. Sorry to hear the same also
>> >applies to NOF9. Given that NOF is still a table-based web authoring
>> >program, you would think they'd get this part of the picture right.
>> >
>> >--Nancy
>> >
>> >
>> >"Ken" <trimdoner@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >news:e07105$gv03@news01.netobjects.com...
>> >> I've raised this point a few time, and never a response. I also pointed
>> >out
>> >> that NOF 9 seemed to produce an extra background table which distorted
>> >> everything - e.g perfect template from 7.5, open in 9= rubbish.
>> >>
>> >> I can appreciate that adding components to pages which cause table
>widths
>> >to
>> >> change is a possibilty, but a perfect 7.5 Template *should* produce a
>> >> perfect NOF 9 site!!
>> >>
>> >> Sites done in 7.5 which stretch to browser width (table-based,
>obviously)
>> >go
>> >> completely haywire in 9.
>> >> I've fiddled and rest table widths (px, auto, %) and just when it all
>fits
>> >> exactly, NOF does something to it and gaps appear.
>> >>
>> >> "Garret Mott" <garret_atsign_automatesoftware_dot_com> wrote in message
>> >> news:e07011$h091@news01.netobjects.com...
>> >> > Yoobet Janice -
>> >> >
>> >> > Hmmm... I bet something has changed.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you take a look at the html produced by NOF9, it produces
>something
>> >> like
>> >> > this (I took this from one of my sites produced with NOF9):
>> >> >
>> >> > <table id="Table20" border=0 cellspacing=2 cellpadding=2 width="100%"
>> >> > height=867>
>> >> >
>> >> > See the width="100%"? This table (in NOF9) has both width & height
>set
>> >to
>> >> > Pixels. A pic of the Table Properties is attached. Seems as though
>the
>> >> > height got set correctly while the width didn't. In other words, the
>> >same
>> >> > kind of problem that's happening for you.
>> >> >
>> >> > Personally, I see this as a "bug". Hate to use that word, but if a
>> >person
>> >> > chooses a particular width or height, NOF should respect that.
>> >> >
>> >> > Maybe someone from NOF could comment?
>> >> >
>> >> > Garret Mott
>> >> >
>> >> > Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
>> >> > Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>

[Garret Mott]

Yoobet Janice -

Hmmm... I bet something has changed.

If you take a look at the html produced by NOF9, it produces something like
this (I took this from one of my sites produced with NOF9):

<table id="Table20" border=0 cellspacing=2 cellpadding=2 width="100%"
height=867>

See the width="100%"? This table (in NOF9) has both width & height set to
Pixels. A pic of the Table Properties is attached. Seems as though the
height got set correctly while the width didn't. In other words, the same
kind of problem that's happening for you.

Personally, I see this as a "bug". Hate to use that word, but if a person
chooses a particular width or height, NOF should respect that.

Maybe someone from NOF could comment?

Garret Mott

Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com

[Ken]

I've raised this point a few time, and never a response. I also pointed out
that NOF 9 seemed to produce an extra background table which distorted
everything - e.g perfect template from 7.5, open in 9= rubbish.

I can appreciate that adding components to pages which cause table widths to
change is a possibilty, but a perfect 7.5 Template *should* produce a
perfect NOF 9 site!!

Sites done in 7.5 which stretch to browser width (table-based, obviously) go
completely haywire in 9.
I've fiddled and rest table widths (px, auto, %) and just when it all fits
exactly, NOF does something to it and gaps appear.

"Garret Mott" <garret_atsign_automatesoftware_dot_com> wrote in message
news:e07011$h091@news01.netobjects.com...
> Yoobet Janice -
>
> Hmmm... I bet something has changed.
>
> If you take a look at the html produced by NOF9, it produces something
like
> this (I took this from one of my sites produced with NOF9):
>
> <table id="Table20" border=0 cellspacing=2 cellpadding=2 width="100%"
> height=867>
>
> See the width="100%"? This table (in NOF9) has both width & height set to
> Pixels. A pic of the Table Properties is attached. Seems as though the
> height got set correctly while the width didn't. In other words, the same
> kind of problem that's happening for you.
>
> Personally, I see this as a "bug". Hate to use that word, but if a person
> chooses a particular width or height, NOF should respect that.
>
> Maybe someone from NOF could comment?
>
> Garret Mott
>
> Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
> Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
>
>
>

[Nancy O]

I had several tables that worked perfectly in NOF MX then went crazy when I
imported them into NOF8. Whatever WSP did between 7.5 and 8 distorted my
tables big time causing me untold grief. Sorry to hear the same also
applies to NOF9. Given that NOF is still a table-based web authoring
program, you would think they'd get this part of the picture right.

--Nancy


"Ken" <trimdoner@aol.com> wrote in message
news:e07105$gv03@news01.netobjects.com...
> I've raised this point a few time, and never a response. I also pointed
out
> that NOF 9 seemed to produce an extra background table which distorted
> everything - e.g perfect template from 7.5, open in 9= rubbish.
>
> I can appreciate that adding components to pages which cause table widths
to
> change is a possibilty, but a perfect 7.5 Template *should* produce a
> perfect NOF 9 site!!
>
> Sites done in 7.5 which stretch to browser width (table-based, obviously)
go
> completely haywire in 9.
> I've fiddled and rest table widths (px, auto, %) and just when it all fits
> exactly, NOF does something to it and gaps appear.
>
> "Garret Mott" <garret_atsign_automatesoftware_dot_com> wrote in message
> news:e07011$h091@news01.netobjects.com...
> > Yoobet Janice -
> >
> > Hmmm... I bet something has changed.
> >
> > If you take a look at the html produced by NOF9, it produces something
> like
> > this (I took this from one of my sites produced with NOF9):
> >
> > <table id="Table20" border=0 cellspacing=2 cellpadding=2 width="100%"
> > height=867>
> >
> > See the width="100%"? This table (in NOF9) has both width & height set
to
> > Pixels. A pic of the Table Properties is attached. Seems as though the
> > height got set correctly while the width didn't. In other words, the
same
> > kind of problem that's happening for you.
> >
> > Personally, I see this as a "bug". Hate to use that word, but if a
person
> > chooses a particular width or height, NOF should respect that.
> >
> > Maybe someone from NOF could comment?
> >
> > Garret Mott
> >
> > Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
> > Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[LBA]

Yes, erratic table behavior continues to be very much a mystery. I've
sometimes found that, contrary to logic (mine, at least) it works best
if I change heights to Percentage. Have you tried that?

Laurence

Nancy O wrote:

>I had several tables that worked perfectly in NOF MX then went crazy when I
>imported them into NOF8. Whatever WSP did between 7.5 and 8 distorted my
>tables big time causing me untold grief. Sorry to hear the same also
>applies to NOF9. Given that NOF is still a table-based web authoring
>program, you would think they'd get this part of the picture right.
>
>--Nancy
>
>
>"Ken" <trimdoner@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:e07105$gv03@news01.netobjects.com...
>> I've raised this point a few time, and never a response. I also pointed
>out
>> that NOF 9 seemed to produce an extra background table which distorted
>> everything - e.g perfect template from 7.5, open in 9= rubbish.
>>
>> I can appreciate that adding components to pages which cause table widths
>to
>> change is a possibilty, but a perfect 7.5 Template *should* produce a
>> perfect NOF 9 site!!
>>
>> Sites done in 7.5 which stretch to browser width (table-based, obviously)
>go
>> completely haywire in 9.
>> I've fiddled and rest table widths (px, auto, %) and just when it all fits
>> exactly, NOF does something to it and gaps appear.
>>
>> "Garret Mott" <garret_atsign_automatesoftware_dot_com> wrote in message
>> news:e07011$h091@news01.netobjects.com...
>> > Yoobet Janice -
>> >
>> > Hmmm... I bet something has changed.
>> >
>> > If you take a look at the html produced by NOF9, it produces something
>> like
>> > this (I took this from one of my sites produced with NOF9):
>> >
>> > <table id="Table20" border=0 cellspacing=2 cellpadding=2 width="100%"
>> > height=867>
>> >
>> > See the width="100%"? This table (in NOF9) has both width & height set
>to
>> > Pixels. A pic of the Table Properties is attached. Seems as though the
>> > height got set correctly while the width didn't. In other words, the
>same
>> > kind of problem that's happening for you.
>> >
>> > Personally, I see this as a "bug". Hate to use that word, but if a
>person
>> > chooses a particular width or height, NOF should respect that.
>> >
>> > Maybe someone from NOF could comment?
>> >
>> > Garret Mott
>> >
>> > Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
>> > Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

[Janice]

Since version 8, I've continued to experience problems with tables not being
WYSIWIG and am not sure if it's something that's changed in NOF or something
I'm doing wrong. For example, in a Ver8 site, I used a table in a layout
area and wanted it to line up with a table in the footer. In Page Design,
they lined up perfectly but, on publish, the table in the footer is offset
by a few pixels.

I'm now developing a site in Ver9 where I'm using a 2 column table in the
layout area. In NOF, the data in both columns lines up nicely at the bottom,
but on publish, the right column is shorter. Since the information in the
right columns will change each month, I wanted the left column to extend to
the same lenth. In versions 7 and earlier, this was easy. Is this an NOF
thing or is it me? I've included a sample page -- in NOF, the bottom of the
"April Machine Tune Up" ad is aligned with the bottom of the green text cell
(less a thin line of cell padding) but on publish, the extra space is
significant.
http://www.aurorasewingcenter.com/temp/index.html

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Janice

[Garret Mott]

Hi Janice -

Nice looking page!

In Table properties, next to Width & Height, you'll see a combobox that's
probably set to "Auto". Change this to "Pixels" & the size should remain
constant when you publish.

You may still have to play with it a bit - as the remote published size may
differ slightly from the preview size - or even the local publish size.

Remember, though, that users may not have the exact same fonts as your
computer- which will mess up spacing in a fixed-size table. Be sure to test
it in a # of different browsers & on a # of different computers.

HTH,

Garret Mott

Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com

"Janice" <janice A T abbeywebdesign_NOSPAMPLEASE dot com> wrote in message
news:e06ni1$gu41@news01.netobjects.com...
> Since version 8, I've continued to experience problems with tables not
> being WYSIWIG and am not sure if it's something that's changed in NOF or
> something I'm doing wrong. For example, in a Ver8 site, I used a table in
> a layout area and wanted it to line up with a table in the footer. In Page
> Design, they lined up perfectly but, on publish, the table in the footer
> is offset by a few pixels.
>
> I'm now developing a site in Ver9 where I'm using a 2 column table in the
> layout area. In NOF, the data in both columns lines up nicely at the
> bottom, but on publish, the right column is shorter. Since the information
> in the right columns will change each month, I wanted the left column to
> extend to the same lenth. In versions 7 and earlier, this was easy. Is
> this an NOF thing or is it me? I've included a sample page -- in NOF, the
> bottom of the "April Machine Tune Up" ad is aligned with the bottom of the
> green text cell (less a thin line of cell padding) but on publish, the
> extra space is significant.
> http://www.aurorasewingcenter.com/temp/index.html
>
> Any help is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Janice
>

[Janice]

Thanks Garret! I'm afraid I do have "pixels" chosen already. I also tried
the auto setting just in case that may have made a difference, with no luck.
I've done this type of layout numerous times in Version 7 (which most of my
sites are still in) without differences between page view and published
version so I keep wondering if something may have changed in NOF, or if I
just don't knwo the program's nuances now. Could there be anything else I
need to look for/change?
Janice


"Garret Mott" <garret_atsign_automatesoftware_dot_com> wrote in message
news:e06p4h$gu42@news01.netobjects.com...
> Hi Janice -
>
> Nice looking page!
>
> In Table properties, next to Width & Height, you'll see a combobox that's
> probably set to "Auto". Change this to "Pixels" & the size should remain
> constant when you publish.
>
> You may still have to play with it a bit - as the remote published size
> may differ slightly from the preview size - or even the local publish
> size.
>
> Remember, though, that users may not have the exact same fonts as your
> computer- which will mess up spacing in a fixed-size table. Be sure to
> test it in a # of different browsers & on a # of different computers.
>
> HTH,
>
> Garret Mott
>
> Auto-Mate Software www.automatesoftware.com
> Northeast DataFlex Consortium www.nedataflex.com
>
> "Janice" <janice A T abbeywebdesign_NOSPAMPLEASE dot com> wrote in message
> news:e06ni1$gu41@news01.netobjects.com...
>> Since version 8, I've continued to experience problems with tables not
>> being WYSIWIG and am not sure if it's something that's changed in NOF or
>> something I'm doing wrong. For example, in a Ver8 site, I used a table in
>> a layout area and wanted it to line up with a table in the footer. In
>> Page Design, they lined up perfectly but, on publish, the table in the
>> footer is offset by a few pixels.
>>
>> I'm now developing a site in Ver9 where I'm using a 2 column table in the
>> layout area. In NOF, the data in both columns lines up nicely at the
>> bottom, but on publish, the right column is shorter. Since the
>> information in the right columns will change each month, I wanted the
>> left column to extend to the same lenth. In versions 7 and earlier, this
>> was easy. Is this an NOF thing or is it me? I've included a sample
>> page -- in NOF, the bottom of the "April Machine Tune Up" ad is aligned
>> with the bottom of the green text cell (less a thin line of cell padding)
>> but on publish, the extra space is significant.
>> http://www.aurorasewingcenter.com/temp/index.html
>>
>> Any help is appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Janice
>>
>
>