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Thread: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

  1. #11
    David Brindley
    Guest

    Default Re: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

    So here's how you do it -

    Go to http://www.hide-ip-soft.com/

    and download a 3 day trial version of Hide IP Platinum

    Install and run the program, then log on to netobjects.com.

    Buy and pay in $US.

    Unload Hide IP Platinum before clicking the downlaod link.

    Works for me, I now have my NoF 10 upgrade at the $US price.

    and no one needed to get hurt or lose out in any way.

    Good luck!



    On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:23:56 +1300, ComradeKiwi <triagain@mail.com>
    wrote:

    >Thanks a lot WSP.
    >
    >I went to get my NoF 10 Upgrade and instead of being offered the
    >product for $US109.95, you want me to pay $AUD175.95
    >
    >Now, when my bank charges my VISA, the first thing they do is convert
    >the $AUD to $USD, then they convert it to $NZD, so not only have WSP
    >clobbered me, the bank will ALSO extract additional margins from me.
    >
    >I want to pay in $USD and just have the one conversion to $NZD.
    >
    >Doing it the WSP way works out $USD109.95 becomes $AUD175.95 becomes
    >$NZD204.47.
    >
    >Doing it MY way $USD109.95 becomes $NZD163.57
    >
    >Why should Im pay $NZD40 more than necessary?
    >
    >PS - Have been using and paying for NoF since V7 in $USD.



  2. #12
    David Brindley
    Guest

    Default Re: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

    NZ hasn't caught up with electronic purchasing yet.

    If I bought the boxed version, it would either be tax free if
    delivered in my own name, or taxed at 12.5% if delivered to the
    business. The tax would then be a claimable item against the tax I
    charge on sales.

    However, as the seller appeard to be in Germany, all tax, if any is
    collected, would remain in Germany. It isn't possible, as far as i
    know, for GST to be charged outside the country that levies the tax,
    as at least in Oz and NZ all exports are zero rated. EU may be a
    different kettle of catfish, of course.



    On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:09:10 -0000, "Ritch" <ritchieatamforddotcodotuk>
    wrote:

    >My reply was tongue in cheek.
    >
    >Since you ask though, I would assume that any purchases in NZ, irrespective
    >of source, would attract a sales tax of some form.
    >
    >Any e-shop for a sizable business should have that capability built in.
    >
    >Ritch
    >
    >"David Brindley" <david@flair.net.nz> wrote in message
    >news:kitvm25uhhjeg1ltfm47ggbsgbknmbtd56@4ax.com.. .
    >> And what relevant local sales tax would that be, Ritch?
    >>
    >> Simply changing the currency by the store front does not mean tax is
    >> paid, does it?
    >>
    >> In fact, hw can it be when I am NZ but the store front wants me to buy
    >> in Ozzie $$?
    >>
    >> On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 07:55:40 -0000, "Ritch" <ritchieatamforddotcodotuk>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Dear, dear!
    >>>
    >>>So WebsitePros are driving folk to subterfuge in order to obtain their
    >>>products.
    >>>
    >>>I assume anyone using this method would of course pay the relevant local
    >>>sales tax direct to their appropriate tax office ;o)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>"David Brindley" <david@flair.net.nz> wrote in message
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>news:trjvm2toqb3hn2ioa7ekvqj9jsgdsmfohn@4ax.com ...
    >>>> So here's how you do it -
    >>>>
    >>>> Go to http://www.hide-ip-soft.com/
    >>>>
    >>>> and download a 3 day trial version of Hide IP Platinum
    >>>>
    >>>> Install and run the program, then log on to netobjects.com.
    >>>>
    >>>> Buy and pay in $US.
    >>>>
    >>>> Unload Hide IP Platinum before clicking the downlaod link.
    >>>>
    >>>> Works for me, I now have my NoF 10 upgrade at the $US price.
    >>>>
    >>>> and no one needed to get hurt or lose out in any way.
    >>>>
    >>>> Good luck!
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:23:56 +1300, ComradeKiwi <triagain@mail.com>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Thanks a lot WSP.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I went to get my NoF 10 Upgrade and instead of being offered the
    >>>>>product for $US109.95, you want me to pay $AUD175.95
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Now, when my bank charges my VISA, the first thing they do is convert
    >>>>>the $AUD to $USD, then they convert it to $NZD, so not only have WSP
    >>>>>clobbered me, the bank will ALSO extract additional margins from me.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I want to pay in $USD and just have the one conversion to $NZD.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Doing it the WSP way works out $USD109.95 becomes $AUD175.95 becomes
    >>>>>$NZD204.47.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Doing it MY way $USD109.95 becomes $NZD163.57
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Why should Im pay $NZD40 more than necessary?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>PS - Have been using and paying for NoF since V7 in $USD.
    >>>>
    >>>

    >>

    >



  3. #13
    Ritch
    Guest

    Default Re: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

    My reply was tongue in cheek.

    Since you ask though, I would assume that any purchases in NZ, irrespective
    of source, would attract a sales tax of some form.

    Any e-shop for a sizable business should have that capability built in.

    Ritch

    "David Brindley" <david@flair.net.nz> wrote in message
    news:kitvm25uhhjeg1ltfm47ggbsgbknmbtd56@4ax.com...
    > And what relevant local sales tax would that be, Ritch?
    >
    > Simply changing the currency by the store front does not mean tax is
    > paid, does it?
    >
    > In fact, hw can it be when I am NZ but the store front wants me to buy
    > in Ozzie $$?
    >
    > On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 07:55:40 -0000, "Ritch" <ritchieatamforddotcodotuk>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Dear, dear!
    >>
    >>So WebsitePros are driving folk to subterfuge in order to obtain their
    >>products.
    >>
    >>I assume anyone using this method would of course pay the relevant local
    >>sales tax direct to their appropriate tax office ;o)
    >>
    >>
    >>"David Brindley" <david@flair.net.nz> wrote in message
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>news:trjvm2toqb3hn2ioa7ekvqj9jsgdsmfohn@4ax.com. ..
    >>> So here's how you do it -
    >>>
    >>> Go to http://www.hide-ip-soft.com/
    >>>
    >>> and download a 3 day trial version of Hide IP Platinum
    >>>
    >>> Install and run the program, then log on to netobjects.com.
    >>>
    >>> Buy and pay in $US.
    >>>
    >>> Unload Hide IP Platinum before clicking the downlaod link.
    >>>
    >>> Works for me, I now have my NoF 10 upgrade at the $US price.
    >>>
    >>> and no one needed to get hurt or lose out in any way.
    >>>
    >>> Good luck!
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:23:56 +1300, ComradeKiwi <triagain@mail.com>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Thanks a lot WSP.
    >>>>
    >>>>I went to get my NoF 10 Upgrade and instead of being offered the
    >>>>product for $US109.95, you want me to pay $AUD175.95
    >>>>
    >>>>Now, when my bank charges my VISA, the first thing they do is convert
    >>>>the $AUD to $USD, then they convert it to $NZD, so not only have WSP
    >>>>clobbered me, the bank will ALSO extract additional margins from me.
    >>>>
    >>>>I want to pay in $USD and just have the one conversion to $NZD.
    >>>>
    >>>>Doing it the WSP way works out $USD109.95 becomes $AUD175.95 becomes
    >>>>$NZD204.47.
    >>>>
    >>>>Doing it MY way $USD109.95 becomes $NZD163.57
    >>>>
    >>>>Why should Im pay $NZD40 more than necessary?
    >>>>
    >>>>PS - Have been using and paying for NoF since V7 in $USD.
    >>>

    >>

    >




  4. #14
    David Brindley
    Guest

    Default Re: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

    And what relevant local sales tax would that be, Ritch?

    Simply changing the currency by the store front does not mean tax is
    paid, does it?

    In fact, hw can it be when I am NZ but the store front wants me to buy
    in Ozzie $$?

    On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 07:55:40 -0000, "Ritch" <ritchieatamforddotcodotuk>
    wrote:

    >Dear, dear!
    >
    >So WebsitePros are driving folk to subterfuge in order to obtain their
    >products.
    >
    >I assume anyone using this method would of course pay the relevant local
    >sales tax direct to their appropriate tax office ;o)
    >
    >
    >"David Brindley" <david@flair.net.nz> wrote in message
    >
    >
    >
    >news:trjvm2toqb3hn2ioa7ekvqj9jsgdsmfohn@4ax.com.. .
    >> So here's how you do it -
    >>
    >> Go to http://www.hide-ip-soft.com/
    >>
    >> and download a 3 day trial version of Hide IP Platinum
    >>
    >> Install and run the program, then log on to netobjects.com.
    >>
    >> Buy and pay in $US.
    >>
    >> Unload Hide IP Platinum before clicking the downlaod link.
    >>
    >> Works for me, I now have my NoF 10 upgrade at the $US price.
    >>
    >> and no one needed to get hurt or lose out in any way.
    >>
    >> Good luck!
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:23:56 +1300, ComradeKiwi <triagain@mail.com>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Thanks a lot WSP.
    >>>
    >>>I went to get my NoF 10 Upgrade and instead of being offered the
    >>>product for $US109.95, you want me to pay $AUD175.95
    >>>
    >>>Now, when my bank charges my VISA, the first thing they do is convert
    >>>the $AUD to $USD, then they convert it to $NZD, so not only have WSP
    >>>clobbered me, the bank will ALSO extract additional margins from me.
    >>>
    >>>I want to pay in $USD and just have the one conversion to $NZD.
    >>>
    >>>Doing it the WSP way works out $USD109.95 becomes $AUD175.95 becomes
    >>>$NZD204.47.
    >>>
    >>>Doing it MY way $USD109.95 becomes $NZD163.57
    >>>
    >>>Why should Im pay $NZD40 more than necessary?
    >>>
    >>>PS - Have been using and paying for NoF since V7 in $USD.

    >>

    >



  5. #15
    Ritch
    Guest

    Default Re: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

    Dear, dear!

    So WebsitePros are driving folk to subterfuge in order to obtain their
    products.

    I assume anyone using this method would of course pay the relevant local
    sales tax direct to their appropriate tax office ;o)


    "David Brindley" <david@flair.net.nz> wrote in message



    news:trjvm2toqb3hn2ioa7ekvqj9jsgdsmfohn@4ax.com...
    > So here's how you do it -
    >
    > Go to http://www.hide-ip-soft.com/
    >
    > and download a 3 day trial version of Hide IP Platinum
    >
    > Install and run the program, then log on to netobjects.com.
    >
    > Buy and pay in $US.
    >
    > Unload Hide IP Platinum before clicking the downlaod link.
    >
    > Works for me, I now have my NoF 10 upgrade at the $US price.
    >
    > and no one needed to get hurt or lose out in any way.
    >
    > Good luck!
    >
    >
    >
    > On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:23:56 +1300, ComradeKiwi <triagain@mail.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Thanks a lot WSP.
    >>
    >>I went to get my NoF 10 Upgrade and instead of being offered the
    >>product for $US109.95, you want me to pay $AUD175.95
    >>
    >>Now, when my bank charges my VISA, the first thing they do is convert
    >>the $AUD to $USD, then they convert it to $NZD, so not only have WSP
    >>clobbered me, the bank will ALSO extract additional margins from me.
    >>
    >>I want to pay in $USD and just have the one conversion to $NZD.
    >>
    >>Doing it the WSP way works out $USD109.95 becomes $AUD175.95 becomes
    >>$NZD204.47.
    >>
    >>Doing it MY way $USD109.95 becomes $NZD163.57
    >>
    >>Why should Im pay $NZD40 more than necessary?
    >>
    >>PS - Have been using and paying for NoF since V7 in $USD.

    >




  6. #16
    Charles Edmonds
    Guest

    Default Re: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

    On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 00:30:23 -0000, Ritch wrote:

    > BUT ... it still doesn't explain why Digital River needs to add an addition
    > premium to an electronic order for, in my case, a UK order.
    >
    > Yes, I understand the VAT and I take that into account, Yes I understand
    > exchange rates. The published ones have a cost of exchange built in.
    >
    > So why the additional premium? As you state, Digital River already charge
    > Website Pros "A BIG commission".


    Sorry - I didn't realize you were seeing an additional premium put on it
    along with a currency conversion and VAT.

    (Keep in mind - I've not seen the price during a "checkout" process in the
    UK). The system detects that my IP is in the USA and only shows me those
    prices.


    One bit to know - the offer for the Backup CD and Download Guarantee do NOT
    come from WSP. Those are added to the cart as options automatically by the
    DR network.


    > Website Pros are the company who offered to do business with me, not Digital
    > River. Website Pros offered me the product at a $ price. At no time did they
    > add a proviso that I would have to pay a premium to Digital River. That is
    > the deceit, in my opinion.


    That is not what is happening.

    Digital River does not levy additional fees on the transaction, so no
    deceit is happening there.

    Example:

    I have some software that is sold through PayPal as our preferred portal.
    However we offer a link for another company (a Digital River) company as
    well.

    If you buy it from PayPal - it is the price in USD (because that is the way
    we set it to be).

    If you buy it through the DR company and are in a country that uses a
    different currency and has VAT - then two things happen in your checkout.

    1) When you select the alternate currency, DR does a conversion (at the
    current rate) and the price is now reflected in THAT currency.

    2) VAT is added (in whatever amount the currency requires).


    That is all that SHOULD be happening.

    I've never gotten a complaint about it - because people in a country where
    it applies understand.



    As for DR being the "vendor" at the moment of sale - this is quite normal
    for almost all online software purchases going through a payment processor.

    In order for the payment processor (Digital River in this case) to comply
    with local tax laws (whether US sales tax or VAT), they actually "buy" the
    software at the price the vendor (WSP) is selling it for at the moment you
    click the buy button.

    Then they levy any tax (and currency conversion) that would be applicable
    for your sale.

    This makes them (DR) responsible - and able to pay the taxes they have
    collected to the proper authority when it is due (without having to wait on
    a "collected tax check" to be sent to them by the original vendor.

    So yes - you are in fact buying from DR at the moment of the sale, and that
    could affect the price.


    Now beyond that - I suppose that there is a possibility that WSP has not
    understood how eCommerce works<vbg> and has entered a price that was
    already adjusted for Euros and the system is adjusting it again - I don't
    know.

    You might do the math on the transaction numbers and see if that is the
    case.


    > Website Pros cannot absolve themselves of any responsibility to their
    > customers. Website Pros have made no attempt to respond to the pricing
    > variance gripes on these forums over the years.


    I agree - I've seen these gripes before and have never heard of anyone
    changing anything.


    So I can't tell you if what we are seeing is simple incompetence (of
    knowing how a real eCommerce store works<g>) or what.

    However it could as simple as that whoever is responsible there just
    doesn't know how the DR network does its calculations.

    ;-)

    PS - I looked at this URL:

    https://shops.netobjects.com/cgi-bin/pages/tac

    It says that:

    "All prices are stated in euros and include VAT (presently 16%). The
    customer shall also bear the shipping and COD costs according to the
    following provisions."


    So I would not be surprised if WSP has the Digital River system all screwed
    up.


    BTW - the reason we prefer PayPal is that we do NOT have to deal with these
    sort of issues. On our limited exposure to the DR network (through SWREG -
    a company that DR acquired a year or so ago) we setup everything in USD
    prices.

    However the DR vendor setup is an absolute terrible interface and VERY
    confusing. It can easily take 35 minutes to add a single product.

    I would not at all be surprised at all if WSP had it out of whack.


    ;-)



    Charles



    --
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Charles Edmonds
    cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)

    www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
    www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
    and Forms!"
    www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
    www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  7. #17
    Ritch
    Guest

    Default Re: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

    A full explanation, Charles.

    BUT ... it still doesn't explain why Digital River needs to add an addition
    premium to an electronic order for, in my case, a UK order.

    Yes, I understand the VAT and I take that into account, Yes I understand
    exchange rates. The published ones have a cost of exchange built in.

    So why the additional premium? As you state, Digital River already charge
    Website Pros "A BIG commission".

    Website Pros are the company who offered to do business with me, not Digital
    River. Website Pros offered me the product at a $ price. At no time did they
    add a proviso that I would have to pay a premium to Digital River. That is
    the deceit, in my opinion.

    Website Pros cannot absolve themselves of any responsibility to their
    customers. Website Pros have made no attempt to respond to the pricing
    variance gripes on these forums over the years.

    Ritch


    "Charles Edmonds" <cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com> wrote in message
    news:h98yjdgm06nl$.139wnmdk8aw0g.dlg@40tude.net...
    > On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 10:04:04 +1300, ComradeKiwi wrote:
    >
    >> Well, this is the reply to my query with the ecommerce vendor
    >>
    >> "thank you for contacting Customer Service.
    >>
    >> We are very sorry that you did encounter this unsatisfying conversion
    >> rate without the possibility to change the currency. Please understand
    >> that we do not have any influence on the pricing, as all prices are
    >> set by the manufacturer themselves. For further information please
    >> contact the support team directly. You may reach them through:
    >> eurosupport@netobjects.com

    >
    > You have to understand that NOF is being sold through the Digital River
    > network.
    >
    > The way it works is that when you click the BUY button - you are NOT
    > buying
    > from NOF - you are in fact buying from Digital River.
    >
    > Since Digital River has determined that your location requires a currency
    > conversion and VAT - they charge you accordingly.
    >
    >
    >
    > Note: When your bank charges you the conversion rates TO and FROM USD -
    > they are raping you, but this has nothing to do with Digital River or WSP.
    >
    >
    >
    > You can console yourself in knowing that Digital River charges a BIG
    > commission for their "services" and that WSP makes the exact same amount
    > of
    > money if they sell you a copy as they do for someone here in the USA.
    >
    >
    > Digital River has a big distribution system (in the past few years they
    > have spent around 100 million dollars or more IIRC for it) with affiliate
    > tracking and digital delivery all built in.
    >
    > WSP is (apparently) trying to leverage the visibility this offers for the
    > software.
    >
    >
    > ... and THAT is a definitive answer (from someone who is in the software
    > business and knows how the DR Network works and why the charges vary as
    > they do...
    >
    >
    > Obviously it does not help your plight for a better price - but at least
    > you know why things are the way they are.
    >
    >
    > ;-)
    >
    >
    > Charles
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Charles Edmonds
    > cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)
    >
    > www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
    > www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
    > and Forms!"
    > www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
    > www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
    > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  8. #18
    Charles Edmonds
    Guest

    Default Re: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

    On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 10:04:04 +1300, ComradeKiwi wrote:

    > Well, this is the reply to my query with the ecommerce vendor
    >
    > "thank you for contacting Customer Service.
    >
    > We are very sorry that you did encounter this unsatisfying conversion
    > rate without the possibility to change the currency. Please understand
    > that we do not have any influence on the pricing, as all prices are
    > set by the manufacturer themselves. For further information please
    > contact the support team directly. You may reach them through:
    > eurosupport@netobjects.com


    You have to understand that NOF is being sold through the Digital River
    network.

    The way it works is that when you click the BUY button - you are NOT buying
    from NOF - you are in fact buying from Digital River.

    Since Digital River has determined that your location requires a currency
    conversion and VAT - they charge you accordingly.



    Note: When your bank charges you the conversion rates TO and FROM USD -
    they are raping you, but this has nothing to do with Digital River or WSP.



    You can console yourself in knowing that Digital River charges a BIG
    commission for their "services" and that WSP makes the exact same amount of
    money if they sell you a copy as they do for someone here in the USA.


    Digital River has a big distribution system (in the past few years they
    have spent around 100 million dollars or more IIRC for it) with affiliate
    tracking and digital delivery all built in.

    WSP is (apparently) trying to leverage the visibility this offers for the
    software.


    .... and THAT is a definitive answer (from someone who is in the software
    business and knows how the DR Network works and why the charges vary as
    they do...


    Obviously it does not help your plight for a better price - but at least
    you know why things are the way they are.


    ;-)


    Charles



    --
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Charles Edmonds
    cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)

    www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
    www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
    and Forms!"
    www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
    www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  9. #19
    ComradeKiwi
    Guest

    Default Re: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

    Well, this is the reply to my query with the ecommerce vendor

    "thank you for contacting Customer Service.

    We are very sorry that you did encounter this unsatisfying conversion
    rate without the possibility to change the currency. Please understand
    that we do not have any influence on the pricing, as all prices are
    set by the manufacturer themselves. For further information please
    contact the support team directly. You may reach them through:
    eurosupport@netobjects.com


    Kind Regards,

    Gülten Bozkirac
    Customer Service, Asknet AG

    www.asknet.com
    Asknet AG - Vincenz-Priessnitz-Str. 3 - 76131 Karlsruhe - Germany
    Board of Managing Directors: Gerhard Rumpff, Dr. Dietmar Waudig,
    Michael Konrad - HRB 108713 Mannheim"

    So, who is setting the price?


    On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:08:57 -0500, "NetObjects Support"
    <support@netobjects.com> wrote:

    >Hello ComradeKiwi,
    >
    >Hello We are currently working with our ecommerce vendor to find a solution
    >to this situation. We appreciate your patience in this matter.


  10. #20
    David Brindley
    Guest

    Default Re: NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users


    Hi Charles, that was a very good explanation, however, it doesn't
    cover what is really happening.

    When I go to the checkout, the system has detected my IP as NZ yet
    offers me a price in $AUD. No, we may be next door, but we DO have a
    different currency. AND we also have a different tax regime.

    In Aus the rate is 10%, in NZ it is 12.5%, So tax is not the reason
    for the higher charges.

    Furthermore, in order to collect GST it is necessary to be a GST
    registered company or individual. Unregistered bodies charging GST are
    breaking the law. Do you really think tey are GST registered in NZ?

    As further evidence, here is a cut n paste from my post purchase email
    from asknet (not Digital River)

    "We would like to point out that this transaction is subject to the
    taxation laws of the country in which your company operates.
    Please take this into account when making your tax declaration."

    Once again, proof that the higher charge is in no way related to tax.











    On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 19:01:47 -0600, Charles Edmonds
    <cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com> wrote:

    >On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 00:30:23 -0000, Ritch wrote:
    >
    >> BUT ... it still doesn't explain why Digital River needs to add an addition
    >> premium to an electronic order for, in my case, a UK order.
    >>
    >> Yes, I understand the VAT and I take that into account, Yes I understand
    >> exchange rates. The published ones have a cost of exchange built in.
    >>
    >> So why the additional premium? As you state, Digital River already charge
    >> Website Pros "A BIG commission".

    >
    >Sorry - I didn't realize you were seeing an additional premium put on it
    >along with a currency conversion and VAT.
    >
    >(Keep in mind - I've not seen the price during a "checkout" process in the
    >UK). The system detects that my IP is in the USA and only shows me those
    >prices.
    >
    >
    >One bit to know - the offer for the Backup CD and Download Guarantee do NOT
    >come from WSP. Those are added to the cart as options automatically by the
    >DR network.
    >
    >
    >> Website Pros are the company who offered to do business with me, not Digital
    >> River. Website Pros offered me the product at a $ price. At no time did they
    >> add a proviso that I would have to pay a premium to Digital River. That is
    >> the deceit, in my opinion.

    >
    >That is not what is happening.
    >
    >Digital River does not levy additional fees on the transaction, so no
    >deceit is happening there.
    >
    >Example:
    >
    >I have some software that is sold through PayPal as our preferred portal.
    >However we offer a link for another company (a Digital River) company as
    >well.
    >
    >If you buy it from PayPal - it is the price in USD (because that is the way
    >we set it to be).
    >
    >If you buy it through the DR company and are in a country that uses a
    >different currency and has VAT - then two things happen in your checkout.
    >
    >1) When you select the alternate currency, DR does a conversion (at the
    >current rate) and the price is now reflected in THAT currency.
    >
    >2) VAT is added (in whatever amount the currency requires).
    >
    >
    >That is all that SHOULD be happening.
    >
    >I've never gotten a complaint about it - because people in a country where
    >it applies understand.
    >
    >
    >
    >As for DR being the "vendor" at the moment of sale - this is quite normal
    >for almost all online software purchases going through a payment processor.
    >
    >In order for the payment processor (Digital River in this case) to comply
    >with local tax laws (whether US sales tax or VAT), they actually "buy" the
    >software at the price the vendor (WSP) is selling it for at the moment you
    >click the buy button.
    >
    >Then they levy any tax (and currency conversion) that would be applicable
    >for your sale.
    >
    >This makes them (DR) responsible - and able to pay the taxes they have
    >collected to the proper authority when it is due (without having to wait on
    >a "collected tax check" to be sent to them by the original vendor.
    >
    >So yes - you are in fact buying from DR at the moment of the sale, and that
    >could affect the price.
    >
    >
    >Now beyond that - I suppose that there is a possibility that WSP has not
    >understood how eCommerce works<vbg> and has entered a price that was
    >already adjusted for Euros and the system is adjusting it again - I don't
    >know.
    >
    >You might do the math on the transaction numbers and see if that is the
    >case.
    >
    >
    >> Website Pros cannot absolve themselves of any responsibility to their
    >> customers. Website Pros have made no attempt to respond to the pricing
    >> variance gripes on these forums over the years.

    >
    >I agree - I've seen these gripes before and have never heard of anyone
    >changing anything.
    >
    >
    >So I can't tell you if what we are seeing is simple incompetence (of
    >knowing how a real eCommerce store works<g>) or what.
    >
    >However it could as simple as that whoever is responsible there just
    >doesn't know how the DR network does its calculations.
    >
    >;-)
    >
    >PS - I looked at this URL:
    >
    >https://shops.netobjects.com/cgi-bin/pages/tac
    >
    >It says that:
    >
    >"All prices are stated in euros and include VAT (presently 16%). The
    >customer shall also bear the shipping and COD costs according to the
    >following provisions."
    >
    >
    >So I would not be surprised if WSP has the Digital River system all screwed
    >up.
    >
    >
    >BTW - the reason we prefer PayPal is that we do NOT have to deal with these
    >sort of issues. On our limited exposure to the DR network (through SWREG -
    >a company that DR acquired a year or so ago) we setup everything in USD
    >prices.
    >
    >However the DR vendor setup is an absolute terrible interface and VERY
    >confusing. It can easily take 35 minutes to add a single product.
    >
    >I would not at all be surprised at all if WSP had it out of whack.
    >
    >
    >;-)
    >
    >
    >
    >Charles



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