NoF 10 not good for Kiwi users

[Charles Edmonds]

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:34:46 +1300, ComradeKiwi wrote:

> I've just been to place an online order with template Zone, another US
> based software supplier who sue Digital River.

I take it you meant another supplier who "use" Digital River?

;-)



> $US price is $49.99, but this site allows me to select my currency, so
> I slected $NZ and price recalculated to $NZ 76.81. A quick look at my
> bank's web site showed $NZ73.46 as the conversion, so that's pretty
> good, and that's the way NoF should be sold.

Ok sounds good.

> Still, I got my upgrade at the $US price by cloaking my IP and fooling
> them into thinking I was US based.

;-)


> As far as the tax thing goes, if I am importing then the imported
> product should be shipped to me free of tax; I am charged the
> appropriate local tax when the goods arrive at Customs.

I'm sure that the system is setup to collect tax because so many sales are
digital downloads with no physical shipment.

My guess is that you'd be able to take the invoice and either get the tax
waived (showing that it was already collected), or at least that is the way
one would think it should work.


It sounds like perhaps your original transaction was not too far off the
mark - but was collecting the tax in advance and then you were getting
hammered on the conversion with that too.


To be sure the entire tax over the Internet thing is a mess at best.

The taxing authorities are worried sick that people can actually manage to
buy things without paying taxes for them - so they threaten hellfire and
brimstone on businesses if they don't make some attempt to collect them.

Of course as consumers - we are all "free spirits" who believe that we
should not have to pay taxes for Internet purchases (or at a minimum do our
civic duty to beat the system whenever we can<g>).

As Americans (with a history of taxes and tea parties ourselves<g>) we
understand the logic perfectly.

;-)

Charles


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)

www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ComradeKiwi]

g'DAY cHARLES

I've just been to place an online order with template Zone, another US
based software supplier who sue Digital River.

$US price is $49.99, but this site allows me to select my currency, so
I slected $NZ and price recalculated to $NZ 76.81. A quick look at my
bank's web site showed $NZ73.46 as the conversion, so that's pretty
good, and that's the way NoF should be sold.

Still, I got my upgrade at the $US price by cloaking my IP and fooling
them into thinking I was US based.

As far as the tax thing goes, if I am importing then the imported
product should be shipped to me free of tax; I am charged the
appropriate local tax when the goods arrive at Customs.



On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 04:19:42 -0600, Charles Edmonds
<cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:01:04 +1300, David Brindley wrote:
>
>> Hi Charles, that was a very good explanation, however, it doesn't
>> cover what is really happening.
>>
>> When I go to the checkout, the system has detected my IP as NZ yet
>> offers me a price in $AUD. No, we may be next door, but we DO have a
>> different currency. AND we also have a different tax regime.
>>
>> In Aus the rate is 10%, in NZ it is 12.5%, So tax is not the reason
>> for the higher charges.
>
>Is the difference in the price presented anywhere close to the differences
>in currency exchange (along with what the tax would be IF you were on $AUD?
>
>If so - then my comments below about my own experiences might prove
>relevant. I doubt seriously if any order processor has a built-in rate and
>tax structure for ALL countries (granted that they should not lump you and
>the Aussies in the same boat just because you are close to each other<g>).
>
>That is why most of them pick what they perceive as the closest tax
>structure and then adjust it after the sale - or allow you to change what
>tax base you are accessed with.
>
>
>> Furthermore, in order to collect GST it is necessary to be a GST
>> registered company or individual. Unregistered bodies charging GST are
>> breaking the law. Do you really think tey are GST registered in NZ?
>
>Given the size of the Digital River "empire" - it would really not surprise
>me if they were.
>
>Keep in mind that this is a company so big as to deliver the digital goods
>for the companies the likes of Symantec and many more.
>
>
>> As further evidence, here is a cut n paste from my post purchase email
>> from asknet (not Digital River)
>>
>> "We would like to point out that this transaction is subject to the
>> taxation laws of the country in which your company operates.
>> Please take this into account when making your tax declaration."
>
>I've seen similar text in emails from purchases I made from companies based
>in Germany, etc.
>
>It is actually a generic "You may end up paying less or more than your
>initial invoice shows" sort of disclaimer.
>
>I actually experienced this in the past month.
>
>I bought a copy of software from a website (not WSP) and no sales tax was
>charged. When I checked my credit card purchase online - it showed one
>amount as "pending".
>
>A few days later the sale was "completed" at the credit card website - but
>for a slightly higher value.
>
>The value was the amount of sales tax due because the "vendor" (Digital
>River again - just like when buying from NOF) had a "presence" in my state.
>
>It did throw me for a loop for a few minutes (since mentally the charge
>amounts did not match what I remembered) and I had to take the time to
>calculate the sales tax and add it on to make the numbers reconcile.
>
>
>> Once again, proof that the higher charge is in no way related to tax.
>
>I suspect that your right - but I also figure that you are getting hammered
>by a fault in the eComemrce system - not actually from WSP.
>
>I am not trying to defend them or take sides by any means, but I've seen a
>lot of screwy stuff as companies try to improve on global eCommerce.
>
>I really don't believe for a second that WSP is out to intentionally charge
>anyone more for a copy of the product than someone else in a different
>country.
>
>They simply could not afford the bad press that such a move would bring if
>discovered and the short term financial gains it might bring would in no
>way offset the potential loss that would follow.
>
>I'd be the first to tell you that I am sorry to see what your having to go
>through to buy the product and likewise I am glad it is not me that has to
>fight that particular battle.
>
>Good luck on getting things sorted out - but I really do believe that what
>is happening to you is a result of the eCommerce vendor and not some
>malicious (or even stupid) action by WSP.
>
>
>Charles

[Charles Edmonds]

On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:01:04 +1300, David Brindley wrote:

> Hi Charles, that was a very good explanation, however, it doesn't
> cover what is really happening.
>
> When I go to the checkout, the system has detected my IP as NZ yet
> offers me a price in $AUD. No, we may be next door, but we DO have a
> different currency. AND we also have a different tax regime.
>
> In Aus the rate is 10%, in NZ it is 12.5%, So tax is not the reason
> for the higher charges.

Is the difference in the price presented anywhere close to the differences
in currency exchange (along with what the tax would be IF you were on $AUD?

If so - then my comments below about my own experiences might prove
relevant. I doubt seriously if any order processor has a built-in rate and
tax structure for ALL countries (granted that they should not lump you and
the Aussies in the same boat just because you are close to each other<g>).

That is why most of them pick what they perceive as the closest tax
structure and then adjust it after the sale - or allow you to change what
tax base you are accessed with.


> Furthermore, in order to collect GST it is necessary to be a GST
> registered company or individual. Unregistered bodies charging GST are
> breaking the law. Do you really think tey are GST registered in NZ?

Given the size of the Digital River "empire" - it would really not surprise
me if they were.

Keep in mind that this is a company so big as to deliver the digital goods
for the companies the likes of Symantec and many more.


> As further evidence, here is a cut n paste from my post purchase email
> from asknet (not Digital River)
>
> "We would like to point out that this transaction is subject to the
> taxation laws of the country in which your company operates.
> Please take this into account when making your tax declaration."

I've seen similar text in emails from purchases I made from companies based
in Germany, etc.

It is actually a generic "You may end up paying less or more than your
initial invoice shows" sort of disclaimer.

I actually experienced this in the past month.

I bought a copy of software from a website (not WSP) and no sales tax was
charged. When I checked my credit card purchase online - it showed one
amount as "pending".

A few days later the sale was "completed" at the credit card website - but
for a slightly higher value.

The value was the amount of sales tax due because the "vendor" (Digital
River again - just like when buying from NOF) had a "presence" in my state.

It did throw me for a loop for a few minutes (since mentally the charge
amounts did not match what I remembered) and I had to take the time to
calculate the sales tax and add it on to make the numbers reconcile.


> Once again, proof that the higher charge is in no way related to tax.

I suspect that your right - but I also figure that you are getting hammered
by a fault in the eComemrce system - not actually from WSP.

I am not trying to defend them or take sides by any means, but I've seen a
lot of screwy stuff as companies try to improve on global eCommerce.

I really don't believe for a second that WSP is out to intentionally charge
anyone more for a copy of the product than someone else in a different
country.

They simply could not afford the bad press that such a move would bring if
discovered and the short term financial gains it might bring would in no
way offset the potential loss that would follow.

I'd be the first to tell you that I am sorry to see what your having to go
through to buy the product and likewise I am glad it is not me that has to
fight that particular battle.

Good luck on getting things sorted out - but I really do believe that what
is happening to you is a result of the eCommerce vendor and not some
malicious (or even stupid) action by WSP.


Charles




--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Edmonds
cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)

www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
and Forms!"
www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Terry]

WSP have been told time and time again.... It's their fault and they don't
give a stuff



"Charles Edmonds" <cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com> wrote in message
news:k6ne45f0lpr2$.1ias5275329i0.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:01:04 +1300, David Brindley wrote:
>
>> Hi Charles, that was a very good explanation, however, it doesn't
>> cover what is really happening.
>>
>> When I go to the checkout, the system has detected my IP as NZ yet
>> offers me a price in $AUD. No, we may be next door, but we DO have a
>> different currency. AND we also have a different tax regime.
>>
>> In Aus the rate is 10%, in NZ it is 12.5%, So tax is not the reason
>> for the higher charges.
>
> Is the difference in the price presented anywhere close to the differences
> in currency exchange (along with what the tax would be IF you were on
> $AUD?
>
> If so - then my comments below about my own experiences might prove
> relevant. I doubt seriously if any order processor has a built-in rate
> and
> tax structure for ALL countries (granted that they should not lump you and
> the Aussies in the same boat just because you are close to each other<g>).
>
> That is why most of them pick what they perceive as the closest tax
> structure and then adjust it after the sale - or allow you to change what
> tax base you are accessed with.
>
>
>> Furthermore, in order to collect GST it is necessary to be a GST
>> registered company or individual. Unregistered bodies charging GST are
>> breaking the law. Do you really think tey are GST registered in NZ?
>
> Given the size of the Digital River "empire" - it would really not
> surprise
> me if they were.
>
> Keep in mind that this is a company so big as to deliver the digital goods
> for the companies the likes of Symantec and many more.
>
>
>> As further evidence, here is a cut n paste from my post purchase email
>> from asknet (not Digital River)
>>
>> "We would like to point out that this transaction is subject to the
>> taxation laws of the country in which your company operates.
>> Please take this into account when making your tax declaration."
>
> I've seen similar text in emails from purchases I made from companies
> based
> in Germany, etc.
>
> It is actually a generic "You may end up paying less or more than your
> initial invoice shows" sort of disclaimer.
>
> I actually experienced this in the past month.
>
> I bought a copy of software from a website (not WSP) and no sales tax was
> charged. When I checked my credit card purchase online - it showed one
> amount as "pending".
>
> A few days later the sale was "completed" at the credit card website - but
> for a slightly higher value.
>
> The value was the amount of sales tax due because the "vendor" (Digital
> River again - just like when buying from NOF) had a "presence" in my
> state.
>
> It did throw me for a loop for a few minutes (since mentally the charge
> amounts did not match what I remembered) and I had to take the time to
> calculate the sales tax and add it on to make the numbers reconcile.
>
>
>> Once again, proof that the higher charge is in no way related to tax.
>
> I suspect that your right - but I also figure that you are getting
> hammered
> by a fault in the eComemrce system - not actually from WSP.
>
> I am not trying to defend them or take sides by any means, but I've seen a
> lot of screwy stuff as companies try to improve on global eCommerce.
>
> I really don't believe for a second that WSP is out to intentionally
> charge
> anyone more for a copy of the product than someone else in a different
> country.
>
> They simply could not afford the bad press that such a move would bring if
> discovered and the short term financial gains it might bring would in no
> way offset the potential loss that would follow.
>
> I'd be the first to tell you that I am sorry to see what your having to go
> through to buy the product and likewise I am glad it is not me that has to
> fight that particular battle.
>
> Good luck on getting things sorted out - but I really do believe that what
> is happening to you is a result of the eCommerce vendor and not some
> malicious (or even stupid) action by WSP.
>
>
> Charles
>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Charles Edmonds
> cje_ByteMeSpammers_@lansrad.com (remove the _ByteMeSpammers_ to email me)
>
> www.clarionproseries.com - "Serious imaging tools for Clarion Developers"
> www.ezround.com - "Round Corner HTML tables with matching Banners, Buttons
> and Forms!"
> www.lansrad.com - "Intelligent Solutions for Universal Problems"
> www.fotokiss.com - "World's Best Auction Photo Editor"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ComradeKiwi]

For those following this saga, I have now received the bill for my
upgrade, doing it my way, cloaking my ISP and buying in $US

After the currency conversion, the bank charges the amount charged to
my Visa card was $NZD164.32.

Remember, Asknet wanted to charge me $AUD175.95 which would convert to
a shade over $NZD200.00

So, I now have NoF 10 (for my sins), saved around $NZD40 on the
purchase, and one must assume, WSP received the same amount of $.



On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:23:56 +1300, ComradeKiwi <triagain@mail.com>
wrote:

>Thanks a lot WSP.
>
>I went to get my NoF 10 Upgrade and instead of being offered the
>product for $US109.95, you want me to pay $AUD175.95
>
>Now, when my bank charges my VISA, the first thing they do is convert
>the $AUD to $USD, then they convert it to $NZD, so not only have WSP
>clobbered me, the bank will ALSO extract additional margins from me.
>
>I want to pay in $USD and just have the one conversion to $NZD.
>
>Doing it the WSP way works out $USD109.95 becomes $AUD175.95 becomes
>$NZD204.47.
>
>Doing it MY way $USD109.95 becomes $NZD163.57
>
>Why should Im pay $NZD40 more than necessary?
>
>PS - Have been using and paying for NoF since V7 in $USD.

[Fred Bloggs]

Ohh, The jammy little sods have cracked down on the IP checking. I used my
work laptop and from the UK pumped the US proxy in ,and nice USD pricing..
However when I select a UK address Oh boy UK £....

Just realised Duhh!! this is a download whoc cares about the address"

So I made up a US address... I though it might fail the mastercard check,
but as long as you got a valid credit card/ exp and verification number,
they it's happy.

I'm downloading now...

Thanks NOF!


"ComradeKiwi" <triagain@mail.com> wrote in message
news:hhv8n2pct0qqfp8k6po891f341mp74np1o@4ax.com...
> For those following this saga, I have now received the bill for my
> upgrade, doing it my way, cloaking my ISP and buying in $US
>
> After the currency conversion, the bank charges the amount charged to
> my Visa card was $NZD164.32.
>
> Remember, Asknet wanted to charge me $AUD175.95 which would convert to
> a shade over $NZD200.00
>
> So, I now have NoF 10 (for my sins), saved around $NZD40 on the
> purchase, and one must assume, WSP received the same amount of $.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:23:56 +1300, ComradeKiwi <triagain@mail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Thanks a lot WSP.
>>
>>I went to get my NoF 10 Upgrade and instead of being offered the
>>product for $US109.95, you want me to pay $AUD175.95
>>
>>Now, when my bank charges my VISA, the first thing they do is convert
>>the $AUD to $USD, then they convert it to $NZD, so not only have WSP
>>clobbered me, the bank will ALSO extract additional margins from me.
>>
>>I want to pay in $USD and just have the one conversion to $NZD.
>>
>>Doing it the WSP way works out $USD109.95 becomes $AUD175.95 becomes
>>$NZD204.47.
>>
>>Doing it MY way $USD109.95 becomes $NZD163.57
>>
>>Why should Im pay $NZD40 more than necessary?
>>
>>PS - Have been using and paying for NoF since V7 in $USD.

[Robin Dillon]

well done david

nice one
"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@abc.com> wrote in message
news:el24ku$gid3@flsun90netnews01.netobjects.com.. .
> Ohh, The jammy little sods have cracked down on the IP checking. I used my
> work laptop and from the UK pumped the US proxy in ,and nice USD pricing..
> However when I select a UK address Oh boy UK £....
>
> Just realised Duhh!! this is a download whoc cares about the address"
>
> So I made up a US address... I though it might fail the mastercard check,
> but as long as you got a valid credit card/ exp and verification number,
> they it's happy.
>
> I'm downloading now...
>
> Thanks NOF!
>
>
> "ComradeKiwi" <triagain@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:hhv8n2pct0qqfp8k6po891f341mp74np1o@4ax.com...
>> For those following this saga, I have now received the bill for my
>> upgrade, doing it my way, cloaking my ISP and buying in $US
>>
>> After the currency conversion, the bank charges the amount charged to
>> my Visa card was $NZD164.32.
>>
>> Remember, Asknet wanted to charge me $AUD175.95 which would convert to
>> a shade over $NZD200.00
>>
>> So, I now have NoF 10 (for my sins), saved around $NZD40 on the
>> purchase, and one must assume, WSP received the same amount of $.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:23:56 +1300, ComradeKiwi <triagain@mail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks a lot WSP.
>>>
>>>I went to get my NoF 10 Upgrade and instead of being offered the
>>>product for $US109.95, you want me to pay $AUD175.95
>>>
>>>Now, when my bank charges my VISA, the first thing they do is convert
>>>the $AUD to $USD, then they convert it to $NZD, so not only have WSP
>>>clobbered me, the bank will ALSO extract additional margins from me.
>>>
>>>I want to pay in $USD and just have the one conversion to $NZD.
>>>
>>>Doing it the WSP way works out $USD109.95 becomes $AUD175.95 becomes
>>>$NZD204.47.
>>>
>>>Doing it MY way $USD109.95 becomes $NZD163.57
>>>
>>>Why should Im pay $NZD40 more than necessary?
>>>
>>>PS - Have been using and paying for NoF since V7 in $USD.
>
>